We moved recently (ok, a year ago), when we left the old house I removed all my zwave switches and replaced with regular switches so I could re-use my investment in the new place. I also bought a small handful of new zwave switches since I knew there were more places I would need them in the new place.
Fast forward about 6 months, after the unpacking and honey-do lists, and I started in to the zwave switch installs only to find there's no neutrals in the house.
As a result, I have a bunch of new and used switches I'd like to sell to help pay for a few more no-neutral switches.
4 of the Zooz double switches - asking $29 ea
1 Inovelli black - asking $20
1 Embrighten Smart switch - asking $40
I'm located in Huntsville, AL and I'll split shipping if anyone is interested.
All of these are NIB, unused. The Inovelli box is a bit munged up, as you can see in the pics, but the switches have never been installed, and the Zooz are still factory sealed.
I'll post update the post with the used switches once I find them all and get a count ...
Although somewhat off topic, since you are automating a new residence, I would suggest that you consider Luton Caseta dimmers and Pico Remotes. They work without neutral wires and installation is simple with three-way and four-way wiring setups.
Although the dimmers do not require a neutral wire, some of the Lutron Caseta switches do. For example, the PD-6ANS-WH switches I use to control my bathroom fans and 4 ft tub light fixtures do require a neutral wire.
If you do consider Lutron, please note that the very efficient Telnet integration with Hubitat requires use of the Lutron Caseta Pro hub. The more readily available standard hubs are not Telnet capable.
So to be clear, I could use the Lutron Caseta dimmers in place of the 3 and 4 way switches currently in my house and not need a neutral in any of the boxes?
If I wanted to use their switches, a neutral is required, so could you use a dimmer in place of a single switch? I've had good luck with the Enbrighten GE smart no-neutral dimmers...
Any Lutron Caseta dimmers or switches would require another hub \ bridge?
Right, it's for that reason I've only been replacing single switches and leaving the 3 and 4 way switches in the house (and there's a LOT) untouched so far.
Are the pico remotes powered, or do they act like the Zooz 700 scene controller buttons? and if you lose Lutron hub I assume like the Zooz, that remote switch won't work, whereas the main switches will continue to work?
Pico remotes have a 10 year battery life. They are very reliable.
Pico Remotes can be paired directly to a Lutron Caseta Dimmer or Switch, and will continue to work even if the Lutron Caseta SmartBridge Pro goes down.
Please be aware that to use Lutron Caseta with Hubitat, you must purchase the SmartBridge Pro version of the Lutron hub. The non-Pro version (most common) will not work with Hubitat.
Is this an either / or condition? the remotes are either paired with a dimmer OR the hub? or are the remotes always paired with a dimmer, regardless of if you have a hub or not?
Additionally, would you then remove the other switch in the 3 way and put the Pico in that box? I see a wall plate that's optional, so not sure if that's needed, or if the Pico just goes in the other box...
Ugh ... There's so many Lutron choices Is the Diva format switch (more traditional) part of the Caseta system, so there's no neutral required? The default Caseta switch with all the buttons would be a non-starter for the wife...
I am pretty sure that regardless how the Pico remote is paired to the Dimmer (directly or via the SmartBridge Pro), it will continue to work if the SmartBridge Pro goes down for any reason.
I just ran a quick test of this, where I powered down my SmartBridge Pro and then used some of my Pico remotes that are used for 3-way switches. Worked great, as expected.
It should be noted that the above testing is 100% Lutron, and has nothing to do with Hubitat. If one were to create a 3-Way switch setup using Hubitat in the middle, and then either the HE Hub or the Lutron SmartBridge was to go down, that would definitely not work.
I only bring specific Pico remotes into Hubitat - those that are not used for 3-Way/4-Way auxiliary switches. I prefer my manual controls to always work, wherever possible. I do use Pico remotes with Hubitat to control smart bulbs. It is so easy to add a Pico to a wall-plate by simply switching from a 1-gang to a 2-gang Decora style wall plate, and then using the Pico wall mount kit/bracket. This allows us to control bedroom nightstand lamps from a wall mounted control as one enters or leaves a room. It works great!
Lutron also offers a plug-in dimmer module, that one could use to control a table lamp with a 'dumb' dimmable bulb in it. The Pico would be linked directly to the plug-in dimmer module, and would always work in that case, just like a 3-way/4-way switch design.
Lutron just recently added the Caseta Diva Dimmer (no neutral) and Caseta Claro Switch (requires neutral) to their product lineup. Many prefer the look of these new switches versus the classic Caseta look. However, Pico remotes always have the classic Caseta look.
Be be aware that there is a non-smart version of the Diva Dimmer which really will not help you in any way.
My wife was 100% fine with me upgrading all of our in-wall switches to 'classic' Caseta a few years back. Since I have most all lighting automated, she rarely even needs to touch a wall switch. She also appreciated that I converted all of the wall plates from old almond colored manual toggle switches, to new white smart devices using Lutron's Claro wall plates. Having no visible screws is a very nice clean look.
Thanks for testing, like you I prefer to have my manual controls always work. I want to replace the 10+ 3-way switch configurations in the house, keeping them as simple as possible, but having the ability to automate the on\off times. So the hubitat would have minimal interaction with the switches except in cases like you said, where I've added a Zooz (like the Pico) to change a 1 switch plate to a 2 switch plate.
Last question, the Pico in a 3-way configuration, do you pull the old switch, cap the wires and mount the pico in the box (and do I need that wall plate adapter) or is it added differently?
The Pico wall plate mounting kit is always required. It works for “surface mounting” or wall box mounting.
And yes, I simply capped off the old traveler wires on both ends. This way they are safe electrically, but still available should traditional switches ever be reinstalled.
Lutron Caseta dimmers do not require neutrals. In a single-switch location, the dimmer is installed in place of the existing switch. Please note that any controlled devices must be dimmable. LED lighting is ideal.
In a multi-switch application (3-way, 4-way, 5-way) you install the dimmer in place of the primary switch. For other locations, tie all of the traveler wires together and use a Pico remote. The remotes are battery powered (CR2032 coin cells) that should last 5 years or more depending upon usage. The remotes are paired directly with the associated dimmer so that they continue to work even if the hub is offline.
If you are controlling non-dimmable devices such as fans or old fluorescent tube light fixtures, you cannot use the Caseta dimmers. In that case, you need a switch and most require a neutral wire.
Most of the other boxes only have 1 traveler wire, so not sure what you mean when you say tie the travelers together. Are you saying to tie them with the common or hot?
I would be very hesitant to simply 'tie the traveler wires together' unless you 100% understand how everything is wired. In my case, for example, in a simple 3-way switch setup, I have Box A and Box B.
Box A has three romex cables - LINE, LOAD, and TRAVELER. LINE is the power/neutral from the breaker box. LOAD is the output/neutral from the switch going to the light fixture. TRAVELER goes to BOX B.
Box B has only the TRAVELER romex cable in it.
Thus, in my situation, I simply disconnected the TRAVELER wires at both ends, and capped them off individually.
Now, my scenario is different because I do have Neutral wires in my wall boxes. Also, power from the panel and the output to the fixture is also always in the same wall box. This will not always be the case, especially with no Neutrals in the OP's scenario.
It might be wise to hire a licensed electrician to sort this all out to be safe.
No, this makes more sense. You said "tie" the travelers together but I was only aware of there ever being 1 traveler wire per box, so there's no "tying" just capping...
If you tie powered and neutral wires together, you create a direct short circuit and will trip the breaker. If conduit and wiring is used, the electrician will use a color other than white or black for the traveler wires, brown is a common color. If Romex wiring is used, a white wire might be used as one of the travelers. If you have Romex, you will need to check the wiring carefully to be sure the white wire is a traveler wire and not a neutral. There are several different ways of wiring three-way switches depending upon the location of the switches relative to the lighting fixture and whether the incoming line hot wire is going to one of the switches or to the light fixture.
Is the Diva format switch (more traditional) part of the Caseta system, so there's no neutral required? The default Caseta switch with all the buttons would be a non-starter for the wife...
