Circling back to Z-wave logs. This should show and entry for all outbound z-wave messages. When you try to activate a S2 device from the hub does it show up in Z-wave logs? (The first try it will always show dev: but after that it should link to the device correctly)
If you happened to have a zsniffer, that would be the most useful way to troubleshoot this.
I do have hub protect. Just so I don't mess it up, are the steps below correct?
1- Create new cloud backup and confirm that the "Z-Wave" box is checked
2- Reset the zwave radio from the hub diagnostic page
3- Reboot
4- Restore from the cloud backup
Yes it does. Here is an example.
dev:52024-04-21 11:56:45.306infoseqNo: 84, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 1ms, repeaters: None, speed: 100 kbs, rssi: [-87 dBm, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A], Ack channel: 0, Transmit channel: 0
I have a Zooz S2 700 USB stick that I use for zapping the occasional ghost node. Can those be used as a sniffer?
Yes that should in theory be safe. I was thinking before step 4 though, try including an S2 device with the reset radio. See if that fixes it. It might attach to an existing device in your device list or something screwy but you can test basic functionality. Then exclude the device or factory reset it before restoring.
When you then do the restore you might want to restore the hub database as well, just in case the inclusion/exclusion mucked anything up.
If it works on reset radio it tells us that something with the z-wave chip database is messed up. Only way to fix might be to reset the radio and rebuild 
Yes I think so, but you have to flash a special firmware on it to use as a zsniffer, not sure if/how you go back to normal afterwards. I have an extra stick I got specifically to make a zsniffer.
Trying this now. Fingers crossed.
You are braver than I am. I get nervous just doing a soft reset even though I know it is perfectly safe if you have a backup.
Believe me, hitting that "reset" button made me cringe.
Well, there is good news and bad news. The good news is that the hub restored as advertised, bringing back all of my devices. The bad news is that the problem is still there. The worse news is that the S2 device did work fine prior to restoring the database.
I really hope that one of the developers can take a look at my z-wave radio DB and see if there is an easy fix. The thought of rebuilding the entire thing from scratch is making me want to cry.
I was thinking .. watching this thread ..
Seems like it would be easier to just re-add everything as a non-s2 device LOL
S0 Seems to be working fine .. really not necessary to have s2 on 99% of devices.
Anyway .. good luck guys ~!
That thought had crossed my mind, and I think someone else may have suggested it at some point. I just can't bring myself to do that. I will never be able to sleep at night knowing that it is still technically "broken". I know, might seem crazy, but I just want it to work ask it should.
@bcopeland or @bobbyD Any chance you can get more details from your end?
TLDR: Devices with S2, cannot control from the hub but inbound messages work. They tried resetting the z-wave radio and including a S2 device on a clean radio, which worked normally. Restoring from cloud backup then brought it back to the non functional state as before. Rebuilding from scratch seems like it would fix it but they have a lot of devices as shown in a screenshot way up in this thread.
@bob5 You could also just PM @support_team your Hub ID with a link to this thread to ask if there is anything else they can see or suggest. They need the Hub ID to check the logs.
I appreciate all of your efforts! If nothing else, I at least know where the problem is now. Standing by for a response from the devs.
I will do that now.
Did you hear anything suggested by staff?
Geese, I've always believed the opposite so included without whenever possible. You have me rethinking my entire network!?!
There are pros and cons either way. S2 does verify each packet, so if you need to have retransmits due to mesh issues or a flaky device sometimes S2 will be more reliable.
On the other hand if you are having mesh issues or a flaky device they can be exacerbated by S2 as well because of the additional traffic.
Yep, that's it in a nutshell. S2 definitely needs a decent mesh to begin with, or you'll just be straining it more.
In my case, I have some devices that fluctuate between a 100 - 40 kbps connection (due to distance or difficult positioning [leak sensors]), so when those flit down to 40, I appreciate knowing their packets are still solid with S2.
Ack, meant to reply in general - response not targeted at JasonJoel in particular - I know he already knows all this
This is partially the reason that LR devices are always S2. Reliability of transmission.
And obviously on those devices there's no mesh to consider, so there's no downside on LR devices.
The other reason LR requires S2 is just marketing fluff. "Encrypted is better than non-encrypted"... 
Sorry for delays. Looks like we have escalated your case and is still under research. Will follow up on your case tomorrow and will send you an update. Thanks for your patience.
Excellent! Thank you for getting back to me. I will be standing by.
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