Is there any way (and if not could there) to trigger either from the app or via RM to go to the mode it "should be in" just like return from away does?
I have basics modes that change throughout the day and when I leave it goes to away and when I return it should go to the mode it would have been in of I had left.
However sometimes I use a outliner mode that is only triggered under certain conditions. The issue I have is then wanting to put it back into normal operation.
I thought I would add another present sensor in the return from away part which is triggered to present when I want it to happen but obviously if the mode is not in AWAY then it doesn't work.
So either a option to allow another return from X mode with this presence device would work or a way in RM to trigger MM and say go to current background mode please would be great.
I'd love to have that too. Also an option for the following:
I have:
Early Morning (5am until I trigger DAY via telling Alexa "I'm up")
Day (Triggered only by me telling Alexa "I'm Up")
Evening (Sunset-15 until either 10:00pm or me telling Alexa "Good Night")
Night (10:00pm or me telling Alexa "Good Night" until Early Morning
Sometimes I'll say "I'm up" before 5:00am and at 5:00am Mode Manager puts me back in Early Morning. It would be nice if there were someway to keep it from going "backwards" timewise in the same day. Or at least some option for a Mode saying Don't set this mode if Mode is already X.
What I do may work for you. I have 4 modes: Home, Evening, Asleep, Away. As well as changing modes via presence and time of day (for Evening), I use virtual switches. This is how the switches are set up in MM.
As an example of how I use these, When I return from Away, MM is set up to make the mode Home. But, if it's after sunset, I really want the mode to be Evening. So I have a RM that runs when the mode becomes Home, and the first part looks like this:
The relevant part... If it's between Sunset and Sunrise (i.e. should be Evening), turn on the switch that triggers MM to set Evening mode, and exit the rule so the Home stuff doesn't run.
There's another RM rule for Evening that will run as soon as Evening is triggered by MM.
The "Switch - Day" switch is used to determine in RM if it's morning and I'm just getting up ("Alexa, good morning"), or if I've come back home after being Away.
Not sure how you are using other conditions to trigger the outlier mode. I use a switch to put mine in "yard work" mode as my presence may shift in and out of home and I do not want away mode arming and triggering alerts. As such, I have it set up when I turn that switch back off, it resumes the timed schedule. This is all done directly in Mode Manager
If you are using RM or some such, you could trigger a switch when the conditions are no longer true and use that switch to trigger return from away in the same section shown above.
Night sleep is on and is skipped within MM. When one wakes up it puts it to quite time mode (also skipped)and when both wake up it sets the mode depending on time of day. Then as times in MM go though it changes it from home to evening to night.
During the week when holiday switch is not on if the wife leaves and I'm at home it puts it to Work at home mode. When she returns it needs to go back to what it would have been had work not happened. If I'm the only one there in the morning it would also go to work at home mode. Then continue as normal (that bit is easy).
It's just the way to put it back to normal which is the missing pieces because the time that it changes from evening and night changes everyday due to sunset and earlier of two times.
That is something you left out of your logic situation in your initial post. You would do well to write down in text form the logic you want to use and then make sure you are covering all situations. If you cannot describe in text what you want to actually do, there isn't much chance in creating a rule to do it. (Flow charting is a lost art that seems to be left out of development anymore, but, it is a VERY useful tool for programming)
For the work at home mode, one possible method is:
Make a "Work at home" Virtual switch. Have the rule turn that switch on when conditions are true, and reverse the switch when conditions are false.
The "work at home" mode still needs to be "Don't Change" and "Skipped" in the presence and timed tables.
Then, in the modes by switches table, it would look like this:
That wouldn't be any different to manually just using RM to set the mode if conditions are met as I do now. The issue is there is Only return from away. What I would require is a return from X mode where I can decide X mode. Then yes I could turn the switch on to set the mode and return to mode when turned off.
That many make MM to complicated hence why my other suggestion that it can be triggered within RM that way the advanced option is in a advanced app @bravenel what do you think?
It gives you a virtual switch that you can use if/when the RM rule fails (which they do on occaision)
Return from away is just the standard verbiage to resume the time schedule. It works from any mode that is excluded. I use it frequently for my "Yard work" situation.
If your RM are failing then there is something wrong. I never have issues with my RM rules. The odd built in app yeah and you end up tracking down a new bug, but RM is very very reliable for me.
Not really it just gives you a switch that tells you if it's in X mode or not. I can just see the mode and it will tell me what actual mode it's it. Honestly your just adding additional complexity when it's not required.
? Really? What do you mean by excluded (as in excluded where) it reads as if it would only trigger of you were in away mode and you return.
Never thought of testing to see if it would work in a mode other than away, I'll try tomorrow. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it does work that actually it's a "feature" bug, possibly purposely not fixed until @bravenel comes up with his final decision fix.
Thanks for the good work. I also would like to be able to set some of my 'Skip' modes to return to the 'Mode at Times' mode. I am using virtual switches (Google Home) for special modes like Movie Time (darker than evening) and Clean Up (brighter than others). Been messing around with rules which I can get to work but ...
I am assuming the 'Mode at times' mode is retained (shadowMode?) for AWAY to use. Any thoughts on adding a column in the 'Set Mode with Switches' table for 'Resume Mode at Times' available on modes set to 'Skip' in Time of Day?
Random thought without much consideration: Would shadowMode be useful as an exposed attribute? Have seen questions related to rules where prior mode is of interest.
I am pretty sure that is exactly what the current "return from away" section of the switches table does. I use "Yard Work" virtual switch to enable "Yard Work" mode so that my normal doors left unlocked warnings do not fire and so that my presence doesn't bounce in and out causing the house to go from Home to away back to home.... etc.
So, I flip the virtual switch on with Google Voice or a dashboard. When I turn it off, it resumes the timed schedule.
I think you might be getting hung up on the "away" in return from away. It actually just resumes the timed schedule. That confused me at first thinking that it only worked for "AWAY" mode specifically.
NOTE: I specifically left out the Vacation switch in the return from away section because I don't want it resuming the schedule when I flip that off. I have a manual process depending on where I am driving or flying back from. So, leaving that switch out forces me to have to manually change the mode when I want it to happen. But, if I set it to away or one of the timed schedules, it works like I never interrupted it.
Thanks for that missing bit of information Tray_e. I had read the help page a couple of times but the special nature of the Away row never became clear. Based on your information and screen shots I was able to do what I was asking.
I added an additional virtual switch to what you had presented which I named Mode Special. When any of my special mode switches are turned on Mode Special is also turned on. When the special mode is turned off Special Mode is also turned off. Using simple basic rules.
I use this switch in the Away row to deactivate any of my special modes.
Note: only showing ON rule. OFF rule not shown as it is simply reversed.
Note for documentation: The way the mode manager documentation is written suggests Skip modes are like the Away mode. I believe this is misleading as there is the more powerful feature that is not explicitly stated. Perhaps adding a statement something like:
The Away mode can deactivate modes that have been activated by features other than Mode at Times. Any mode set to Skip (i.e., Special Modes) can be deactivated so that the mode will revert to that based on Mode at Times.
e.g., You create a movie time mode controlled by MovieModeSwitch. You enable this mode with a row in the Set Mode with Switches with MovieModeSwitch ON. To deactivate movie time and return to the normal time based mode you use MovieModeSwitch in the Away row OFF. For multiple Skip modes, you can use a virtual switch (e.g., SpecialModeSwitch) on the Away row. Update SpecialModeSwitch with basic rules when any of your Skip mode triggers change.
The only issue with that is that the skipped modes aren't "away" modes. The only thing I think they need to make more clear is that the "return from away" actually just returns/resumes from skipped modes.
BTW - If presence could disrupt your special modes, you may want to mark them skipped in the presence table as well.
Complete agreement which I think you will see if you re-read my response . The like the away mode is actually in the help documentation and not part of my suggested addition... It is an example of how hard it is to write help documents when interpretation by others may not match what you, the expert, intended. When you know a topic fully it is easy to forget what others don't know.
I haven't got to presence yet so you likely saved me some head scratching.
My perspective: From a practical sense the Away mode is just another mode with one special extra - the ability to return to the time based modes. On the Mode Manager screen, the switches table could maybe reword Return from Away Mode with Return to time of day mode.
For anyone starting out: Somewhat related to this conversation is what I'll call Virtual special modes - not modes in normal Hubitat terms but look like it to the user:
As a newby I am starting with lighting and specifically the Room Lighting app which is driven off modes. This is great for the 80/20 situations. For exceptions, like the night owl who decides to do stuff late at night while others are sleeping, the mode manager doesn't help as it is system wide. For these exceptions, it is likely the devices are specific to a smaller zone like a single room. Room Lighting app has the means to do this for lighting at least (more actually). I use a switch to enable/disable specific Room Lighting rooms from using modes and also rules to set the lights up as desired within the room. The switch can be fully manual or other events such as inactive motion can turn it off. Additionally, I have rules which look at the events in the room to see if I want to tweek it. e.g., some of my kitchen lights turn on at modest levels. A rule looking at the motion sensor will brighten lights after a duration. The rule updates some variables used in Room Lighting so the level can be changed while still in a mode. Now when we need to grab something from the kitchen while dining the light level is not blinding and while preparing the meal the task lighting is bright.
Using Mode Manager time based and Skip modes along with Room Lighting I can control the lighting very nicely for all of the house and for specific rooms using simple (virtual) switches . Good job Hubitat.
. The like the away mode is actually in the help documentation and not part of my suggested addition... It is an example of how hard it is to write help documents when interpretation by others may not match what you, the expert, intended. When you know a topic fully it is easy to forget what others don't know.
