Renters, Landlords, RV Owners and Other Non-Permanent Residents

Personally I don't have any direct interest in any of these categories, but expect there are enough people that could produce an interesting conversation about how each circumstance plays out with automation and other considerations.

Your preference for Pineapple on pizza will not count to any character assessment here.... :slight_smile:

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Even though we “own” our home, i still tend to stick with not so permanent installations. Yeah I've replaced some switches, but everything else can still be torn down and take with when we move. Plus, i just have an aversion to making unnecessary holes in the wall.

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I do not know what the laws are in other countries, but in the States, anything that is permanently installed in rental property becomes that property of the landlord. A fixture is considered to be permanent if it is attached with nails, screws,bolts, glue or cement. A sensor attached to a wall with Velcro or removable mounting tape would not be considered permanent. A smart switch mounted in an electrical box would be considered a fixture. Drapery rods screwed into the window facing are considered to be a fixture while the drapery or curtains themselves are not.

Even if you own your own home, if you do not intend to leave behind such things as smart switches and dimmers mounted in electrical boxes, you need to remove and replace them with standard switches prior to putting your home on the market. Anything permanently mounted that is in place when the home is shown for sale is considered to be a fixture that transfers with the property upon sale. You might receive objections from the buyer who finds you have removed fixtures when they do the final walk-through before closing.

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TBH I had not considered the legal aspects of the whole renting situation... Good to point out some of the goal-posts for people, at least in The States (?), to adhere to.

I’ve been down the smart camper rabbit hole for a few weeks. I’m almost wrapped up, but had one interesting automation I wanted to share.
I installed a zen53 for the awning, and after watching it almost overextend, I immediately pulled it and put it back on the test bench. After updating firmware, setting discrete open and close times and discovering that parameter 13 exists (disable all control), I was comfortable reinstalling it. However, I was still nervous about the possibility that my wife or daughter (or I) could accidentally trigger the awning opening at the wrong time.
Soooo, in addition to setting parameter 13 based on presence, I mounted a zse43 tilt sensor to the side of the stairs.
When I pack up camp and flip the stairs up, the zen53 parameter 13 is set to all controls off (local and z wave). 30 seconds later, parameter 13 is checked/verified and I receive a pushover notification that the stairs are up and awning controls are disabled.
In order for the awning to work again, one of us has to be present and the stairs have to be folded down.

Edit: I’m doing this through HA - still haven’t set up my HE in the camper yet. HA just supports more stuff in/around the camper world.

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When we sold out last home (in 2020) we were told We could stipulate in the listing if those things would not be left behind. In that instance it was a pair of Ecobee thermostats, that I ended up leaving anyway. I recently replaced several dumb switches with Zooz switches and Dimmers. I don't know what I'll do when I move, but I am holding on to the dumb switches in case I decide to put them back in and keep the Zooz Switches when we move. Pretty much everything else has some variety of removeable mounting solution, mostly foam tape or 3m Command Stirps and 3M Command Velcro. I don't really anticipate a whole lot more permanent stuff being added. Any new devices I may add will likely be in a manner to make them easy to remove.

Many rental contracts have a clause stating that the lessee must leave the premises in the same condition as when possession was initially taken, which means that you have to remove anything you installed, patch nail and screw holes, etc. Such a clause is in clear conflict with the implied rule you state.

Beside, if the land lord doesnt know you swapped the switch out to begun with, they wont know when you swap it back before you leave (if you were that determined). I’d probably just use outlets, bulbs and button controllers if it were me.

Most rental contracts indicate that the landlord has the right to inspect his property during the tenure of the tenant. If such an inspection is carried out, the landlord might notice any fixtures you might have added. They are considered improvements to the property and are considered the property of the landlord.

That is a lot different than nail holes driven in walls to hang pictures, etc. These are not permanent fixtures and need to be removed and the holes patched when vacating the property.

If the landlord does not know that you "improved the property" by installing smart switches and dimmers, you might be able to reinstall the original switches without the landlord ever knowing, but legally, they are fixtures that should remain with the property.

All quite true, but I also have never had a landlord, just come in an inspect or even perform an announced routine inspection. Honestly, I doubt most would even notice. Most would just be looking for any glaring issues, not flipping switches, etc. Especially in today's world where most of the rental property is owned by nameless hedge funds, capital corporations or REITS, not the mom-and-pop real estate investors with a couple income properties (Important to note I'm not saying those aren't around, they are just fewer and farther between than they were 5 or 10 years ago). Even then they usually farm out management to a management company, who doesn't really know what the property looked before a tenant moved in, much less after. My last rental, they withheld about half of my deposit for a bunch of fictional damages and repairs. When I asked to see the documentation (i.e. pictures and detailed accounting) they were for the house three doors down. When I pointed that out, they stopped responding (and still didn't return my deposit). If I were still renting, I would not be all that concerned about installing smart devices, so long as I remember to swap them back out when I move out. the landlord most likely would never know the difference.

EDIT:
There is also a remarkably high likelihood that even if they DID inspect AND notice the improved devices, they wouldn't remember when the tenant left, so long as there is a functional switch in the wall. Maybe someone would, but defiantly not most.

Since nearly everyone has a smartphone these days with an excellent camera, document everything with photos. Before moving it, take photos. Immediately after moving out, take photos. Be sure the photos are dated. That is the best way to prevent landlords from retaining deposits.

That was the funny thing, I did. And when I questioned THEIR pictures (which are very obviously not my house) they stopped responding. We are talking different color brick, paint, appliances, carpet, different styles of fixtures, etc, just really obviously not my place. Pretty sure this was standard practice. And when they get caught, they just stopped responding.
When we first moved in the house was owned by a small investor. She never gave us any issues. She sold it to a investment trust, they refused to do even basic repairs, then tried to blame us when their people didn’t complete a repair correctly (used black duct tape to tape a piece of wall board in place cut out for a plumbing repair) . Neither ever did any kind of inspection other than when it was sold, and I doubt they would have noticed smart switches. I even repaired dog damage from the previous tenant to make sure I got my deposit back. No mention of the damage or the repair. But the back porch light on the house three doors down being burned out cost $55 (itemized).

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