Pseudo 3 way for NON-Hue Basic Phillips LEDs, Lutron v Leviton v?

I got started in home automation in a bigger way back in 2015 After a Reno (all Early Phillips LED lights, they have their Issues, but the price was right and it’s a big home), stayed Wink for quite a while, changing to Hubitat in protest. I’m no fanatic (even though I want to be) and trend towards “set and forget” rather than complex scene scenarios and so forth.

Our device network is, because of the early entry, a mish mash of device types, early Schlage (my father was the factory manager here in Canada), Full Lutron bridge, Pico, Leviton, Aeotec Repeater 6, you name it. Gone fully Google Home with some voice automation (my life is an open book anyway).

So I have a very simple need I need advice for, and a bigger one.

The simple need is that I am automating our enSuite and the electrician decided to run a separate circuit for the vanity vs a three way (I am familiar with electrical circuits and wiring, just too lazy to re-trace the hot paths to see if I could add it (likely since vanity switch is at the beginning of the circuit).

My goal is to add an occupancy sensor and have dimmable switches with some scenario programming so that we can walk in at different times, have the lighting set to different levels based on time of day (walk in at midnight - only vanity turns on at really dim level, walk in evening - all lights, walk in during the day - no lights (lots of windows)... hmmm is ambient light level sensing a thing?).

(And on top of that I am a cheap do it yourselfer)

So after looking around for a suitable integrated smart dimmer / occupancy sensor switch (GE makes something expense but yet ANOTHER smart universe to traverse), I figure I’m gonna need two smart dimmers and a discreet Z-wave occupancy sensor Talking to each other via Hubitat. Or what do people think?

Next question is choice of smart brand universe. I’m intrigued by Innovelli (and they discuss being natively able to do the pseudo 3-way scenario - although really I am capable of Hubitat Control). I am really satisfied with Lutron so far, seems like the smoothest control out there, and makes my LEDs buzz less. Leviton a bargain and not bad, but the originals made my Phillips LEDs buzz annoyingly (remember there are strings of these bulbs in ceiling pot lights, as opposed to just one).

And the “I do really want to set and forget” part of me is saying “Pick a brand and stick with it.” So, do I experiment and go Innovelli? Do I stick with Lutron and lay out the bucks? Do I ?

To be honest I am the kind of finicky person that doesn’t stop until it’s perfect, and buzzy LEDs annoy me no end (and yes, I guess I could replace the Phillips, but they’ve worked so well at just the right colour temp so far).

Experience, advice, shoulder to cry on anyone?

Would you consider a hue motion sensor? They include a lux reading as well as the motion and a temperature reading.

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Hue, hmmm... a possibility, thank you. Not a Hue kind of guy on the lighting end of things (and they aren’t cheap), BUT I forgot to add that I DO need a relatively FAST motion sensing and communication protocol in order not to delay the bathroom lighting....

For basic motion sensing I use basic Z-Wave sensors, cheap, battery lasts FOREVER, but you know I’ve never really tested their network response time.

Sorry to hijack this, but can Hubitat receive hue motion sensor alerts etc via the hue bridge or must the sensor be paired directly to the hue hub for this? I am using the CocoHue integration. Maybe I should have asked in that thread :slight_smile:

Yes, and the need to add YAH (Yet Another Hub). You should see the rats nest on the highest shelf in our kitchen. It’s starting to look a little like a NASA control centre up there!

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I believe they need to be paired. HE only polls the bridge or sends commands to the bridge, there's no comm's automatically back from the hue bridge. Sorry...

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And they all seem to love bright blue lights for some reason.... My Bond hub was the first I've seen with a setting to dial it down or even turn off the status light on the hub...

Actually that's a good point on the hub and cost. I assumed you already had a bridge, that would make it an expensive exercise, unless you could get more benefit from the bridge...

Hmmm... Aeotec trisensor or Zooz 4 in 1 for the light level / occupancy part.... didn’t think of that angle (originally I was trying to get motion sensing and dimming and smart in one switch package).

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I guess breaking up the sensor and switch gives you flexibility with their placement, i.e. they can be in separate parts of the room for best effect

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Looks like Innovelli has a motion / temp / light sensor as well, but darned if I can find it for sale in Canada (although apparently it was here earlier in the year).

Yeah I think supply chains for a lot of things have been just a little disrupted this year...

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I just realized that by saying “Philips Leds” my thread is a little misleading because these are “dumb” par20 LEDs, and not Hues.

I guess a different approach may be smart lamps for the vanity, but keeping the power connected is always the issue.

Currently the vanity (separate circuit than main ensuite lights) has a dimmable motion detector that works fine, but it’s not smart and it’s a pain to have to change the dimming by hand vs ambient light or time of day. So really I have a number of solutions to try to get the best, fastest motion detection that turns on led lights to a very low dimmable level based on either time of day (Hubitat) or Ambient light level. Temp sensor is an added bonus as we don’t currently have any temp sensors upstairs where the ensuite is and that could help in automating furnace control (Honeywell system).

That makes more sense. I hadn't even realised you hadn't mentioned hue, when you see Philips on this forum you make assumptions...:slightly_smiling_face:

I actually installed a hue lights above my vanity earlier this year. Expensive, about $250 AUD I think, so probably 170 US I would assume. I forget the model name... It came with a dimmer switch you could pair directly to the light, i.e. no need for a hue bridge. But you should be able to hook it up to HE I would think.

Edit:. The light was an Adore Wall Lamp

You know, going one step back, I am reading (I think) that the Hue Indoor Motion and Light sensor may work directly with the HE and not need the Hue Hub.... As a unit it’s less expensive, temperature is my least important sense for this purpose. Mainly I am worried about response speed of the motion detection.

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That's correct, you can pair it directly to the HE hub. Sorry, I forgot to mention it earlier.

OK, I’ve pulled the trigger on a Hue Motion Sensor and two Zooz v3 Zen27 dimmers to pull off the scene for the ensuite. I’ll report back once it’s installed mid-next week hopefully.

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Just reporting back. The Zooz Zen27s were perfect for this purpose, and incredibly good dimmers. Works well with my old Phillips (non-Hue) LED Pot lights. No buzzing, nice dimming range (I wanted a really low 1% setting for mood lighting). No perceptible flicker. And easy to program with or without HE. I have them set to be a virtual 3-way given certain scenarios, and in combination with the Hue Sensor they work fast enough for the purpose of detecting entrance to the washroom, and setting The dimming level based on ambient light (and/or time of day).

Illuminance sensing took nearly a day to come on line with the Hue Motion Sensor, but it’s working well now. No idea if the reading is Lux accurate, but I can use it in a relative mode anyway. Temperature sensing is also a bonus for me (now can do automated ceiling fan for adjoining Bed Room Without getting another sensor).

This turns out to be a terrific combination with the Rule Machine and Motion Lighting Apps. Perhaps too good, I am tempted to experiment all day. Where exactly to mount the Hue Sensor is still an issue given that it looks like a camera, but ultimately I think above the bathroom door facing into the washroom since I need the occupancy aspect to help with turning off the lights.

Thanks for all your help!

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