I fail to see the comparison between drones/electric-skateboards and a home automation hub. With both of those products, users routinely wear-out/destroy the products, and are forced to buy replacement parts/batteries or completely new devices. Thus, a constant revenue stream for those companies, from the same user-base. Surely you're spending at least $5 a month on those two hobbies, right? 
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There's no reason a manufacturer of a home security hub couldn't create a revenue stream off of line extensions that have annual upgrades etc (ie Samsung, iPhone etc) right now are primarily supplied by 3rd parties. Maybe you have to come from Wink where one day your system is securing your family's home and the next day Wink is threatening to shut it down in ONE WEEK if you don't pay the fee...for you to understand the animosity associated with turning a free service into a fee service. I'll tell you right now if any fee is proposed the new exWink Hubitat members will not react kindly!
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Do you own a DJI, EagleTree, Backfire, Trampa or similar product?
The best example is DJI...their Android and iPhone interfaces are very slick, easy to use and there is no fee to keep your drone flying. Trampa has a similar following as Hubitat where there are tons of user forums supporting the equipment and add-ons and software which are in constant flux and improvement...but no fee to keep your skateboard running.
Also look at the phone manufactures...I am a Samsung owner and there's no fee to use their awesome interface. Additionally Android doesn't charge a fee...both businesses have creatively built a business model that keeps revenues flowing with no fees. I do not see why a high-tech, on-trend, home automation business cannot do the same...the one that does, wins in my opinion.
I am strongly against a free service turning into a fee based service.
That and quality drones are easily $1000. I hadn't heard of the electric skateboards, but I went to their site and randomly clicked on a few of the electric skateboards and they were £1500 and £2500.
So not only do you buy replacement parts or upgrade every few years, but the price scale is totally different.
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Hmmm.... 
Not sure I agree with you on this one. If your Drone or Skateboard manufacturer came out with a new model next year, that had all kinds of new, cool, exciting features, would you expect them to replace your existing devices for free?
Hubitat has been delivering new features and functionality for over 2 years now and has never asked users for any additional $. Do I understand their business model? Not at all! But I am sure Hubitat has a strategy. Even if they were to eventually fail financially, the hub would still work for many tasks, providing ample time to migrate to something else.
While I would also love to continue to receive upgrades for free, I do recognize that the Hubitat Team does not have almost infinite resources like Amazon, Google, Apple, or Samsung. They are a small team who I am happy and proud to support. They are an american company, designing and developing software here in the USA. The provide an excellent product at a ridiculously low price, IMHO.
If Hubitat did decide to offer premium features/services for a monthly/annual fee, and I saw value in those services, I would gladly pay for it.
Hell, if they offered a PRO Version of the Hub, with greater CPU/Memory/Storage and maybe some cool built-in functionality like InfluxDB, Grafana, and Node-Red... I would gladly pay 2-3 times their current hub price.
I totally understand where you're coming from. We've all been there in some way, shape or form. I loved my Sony Playstation Vue service, until Sony decided to kill it off. And Sony had a constant monthly revenue stream. I moved to YouTubeTV and am actually much happier now. Sometimes change is a good thing.
I completely agree that Wink handled their initial communications terribly. One week is crazy. However, for just $5 users could buy themselves an extra 30 days. And then a week later Wink extended the deadline by another week... And yesterday, they decided to not charge anyone who did sign up for the $5 monthly fee. Talk about putting your users through the ringer, eh?
Again, the comparison just doesn't make sense to me. Everyone pays a monthly recurring fee to use the SmartPhone. The service is not free! Also, with Android you are giving up all privacy to your data. Plus, these devices cost anywhere from $300 to $1300, and users replace them every 2-5 years!
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This debate will never end, there are always going to be 3 types of people.
- People that will never pay a fee.
- People that will always pay the fee.
- People that will do their research to determine if the fee is worth it for them.
IF the time ever comes, I will be part of group #3.
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That tells me the price elasticity for hubitat is very low...people will be willing to pay for higher end, cooler equipment. I have no problem forking over maybe $400's for the "new" Hubitat rather than being handcuffed to a monthly fee. That's the user's choice, either pay for the one time base model or pay for the cooler, better model...just like every other piece of technology hardware out there.
After Wink's debacle, and this sorta being a dead thread, I am actually surprised by the fee apologists reaction to my original post...hmm make me worry about what's coming down the pike here.
Thanks for the clarification Mike.
Sorry to start a firestorm here, I am very happy using Hubitat so far (1 week), it's really a great piece of equipment, keep up the awesome work!
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I fall into number 4. Those who make the time and dollar investment decision up front for a product that states from the beginning whether they are fee based or not, then makes a choice...rather than purchasing a non-fee based product and having a fee sprung upon them after spending hours, days, weeks, and dollars investing in that product.
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Just to add here with my own 2 cents.
I believe a model like HE's actually does in the long run, need two types;
- Free - current offering
- Paid - Enhancements that actually do cost more money.
I would gladly pay $5-$10 per month if I knew I was going to get some additional benefits that are adds and not detrimental to anyone on free.
e.g.
- Extended Hardware warranty as a member (e.g. like Ring's no questions replacements)
- Discounts on future devices
- Accelerated/Guaranteed SLAs for support tickets
- Perhaps features/apps that are cloud-based and would require a substantial cost to HE that just doesn't scale to free (e.g. HE cloud backups, premium cloud service integration, Enhance Remote Administration, Sharptools included perhaps or better cloud dashboards, etc.). Basically non-local stuff that you can justify paying for.
That's just my take on what I think could deliver both value and money to HE while maintaining their very important hardware +free local control support that is so key to it's offering.
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One more voice among many:
My Hubitat hub has provided so much value for the extremely minimal entry cost. It was literally just the same as the cost of 1 or 2 of my many smart devices. A tiny fraction of the total spend I've done on smart home hardware. I have absolutely gotten my money's worth many times over.
So:
- If Hubitat ever came out with a more expensive premium hub, I would absolutely buy it.
- If Hubitat ever added a paid service with additional features, I would absolutely subscribe. (Unless it literally only did something for devices I don't have. But I have pretty much every category.)
I have no inside info, but I am absolutely a target market for future revenue. That's the result of them delivering tons of value for a low price.
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Chaulk me up for #1. I would love to see a super cool upgraded hub as well as Hubitat branded peripherals/sensors/automation gear, that also coincided with a better app and PC interface. I'd also go out and buy the shiny new model and components every few years.
I'd probably pay somewhere up to $500 for such a device...add a cellular internet connection to the hub and I'd pay $700, add battery backup and cellular and I'd pay up to $1,000. I could actually think of endless ways Hubitat could evolve their revenue and business model that doesn't result in one more forgotten-monthly-fee-hand in my wallet...so sick of those!!!!!
I used to just buy software when I needed it...such as Microsoft Office, Adobe applications but now they're a fee service, so while I may not use many of those applications for months, sadly a year in some cases, I still have that fee coming out of my pocket each month which turns into a forgotten expense...gee thanks service providers for the robbery...it makes me resent those companies which isn't a healthy brand experience.
The difference between Wink and Hubitat is that losing access to the Wink servers bricks the hub. If Hubitat went away the existing hubs would continue functioning.
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There's no question that fees of any kind bother some people. I have been with Hubitat Elevation from almost the beginning and originally there was a subscription model planned, but that changed fairly early in the game. I was, and always will be ready to join such a service if the value make sense to me.
In order to grow a product's feature and benefits set, the team must be expanded. Small teams can only achieve so much with the available hours in a day before burn-out shrinks the team to a disruptive level and then whole thing comes crashing down. But to grow the team you must expand and innovate your revenue models. Investors will only take you so far and the bill always comes due.
I've never had a better experience than I've had with this hub and I've tried several before it (including Wink). I'm completely willing to participating in furthering their business as they have already shown their strong aptitude with a small team to make a competitive hub that is outpacing the competition. That kind of skill and ability deserves to be fed so it can thrive, not choked into non-existence.
Wink is not a good comparison to HE at all. Wink was mismanaged by Nathan Smith, then Flex (a group of very talented engineers) in my opinion weren't prepared for the immense support efforts required to keep that in their portfolio when they have so many more lucrative branches of their business, so their dumping that product came to no surprise. And when will.i.am bought the company, it was almost a death sentence at that moment. His track record in IoT devices speaks volumes in that regard.
You can expect better from Hubitat. They were founded on that principal, but I don't think it's reasonable to over-react if Hubitat makes a sensible decision to increase their cashflow through service options in order to further the development pace.
Wink.i.am NOT
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It seems like, in general, you prefer to pay more for higher end hardware, even replacing it every few years, which gives the device maker the flexibility to offer additional services that come with it, without necessarily resorting to recurring fees. And you appear to not really like recurring fees. We all have our preferences when it comes to how we value products and services.
But, with all due respect, you seem very caught up in your own opinion and aren't really listening to others, because it feels like you keep trying to falsely equate what Wink did recently to any decision hubitat might make to impose subscription fees in the future.
This is a critical difference between Hubitat and Wink. You are never at risk of having your hub turned into a brick even if they do add a subscription service in the future.
If they do add some kind of optional fee-based services in the future, I look forward to learning more about them and making my own decision.
I like non-functional enhancements. Maybe an all aluminum case with big heat sink fins! Or gold plating! Or colored rubber covers to mix/match with your decor!
(ok, that was sarcasm - and not value added at all. Please ignore)
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Disclaimer: I am a former Wink user.
I would absolutely NOT pay Wink 1 cent for their service. They have done nothing in 3 years, and are so far behind in both hardware and software it isn't even funny. Their server issues, certificate issues, not paying employees, and more just adds to all that.
If I were getting something for my money, like continuous updates, enhanced features, enhanced integrations, and so on, I would be willing to pay. I am not sure how large of a fee I would pay, or how this would look (groups of features, or `a la carte). But I would be willing if there was some value there and not just "MORE ICONS and THREE ROWS!" crap after all this time of nothing.
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How's about Hubitat copy one of the strongest business models in the world....and....add ads.
That would be the one thing to drive me away. Or use adblock or some other similar solution that would block supporting them anyway.
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Ha ha ha, yeah.
