This is a huge oversight. I didnât think about the Aux neutral requirement.
Ok, so to sum it up ... asking this to make sure I'm not missing anything obvious...
I have no neutrals, I can use the Inovelli and GE Embrighten No-Neutral switches for anything that's a regular single switch circuit. But they won't work for 3+ way installs because the add-on switches need a neutral.
For 3, 4 and 5 way circuits, of which I have many, the Caseta solution doesn't buy me anything because the Caseta wall switch requires a netural. So while the Picos are nice, and if I wanted to use those in 3 way solutions, I would still need one of the switches to have a neutral, then cap the others and put a mounting plate for a pico over the box.
Someone mentioned a no neutral switch plus regular switches, and I don't think I follow. The traveler sends power to the other switches so even when the main switch is off, the others can energize the circuit. What am I missing here?
I thought about Hue, I have the hub and some lights already. I could power up the outlet (either cap the other switches, or just instruct everyone not to touch them) and then use some sort of button controller (or add a Lutron pro hub and use Picos) for power on\off.
However, the WAF is huge here. I really liked the GE zwave switches we were using in our old place, of course we had neutrals everywhere, because if the hub died everything still just worked, and when power came back there was no need to wait for the hub to come up before switches worked again. Plus, at first glance, unless you knew to look for the little blue light, it wasnt obvious the switches were managed. Adding Picos on the night stands would be one thing, but having a few in place of the paddle switches would get me a "why are you putting in these fancy switches with so many buttons, can't we just have a regular light switch". And dont get me started on mentioning the Picos have batteries...
So...... Short of running a neutral to one or more of the boxes for my 3,4,5 way lighting installs, what other option do I have? Sorry if this is redundant, just still not seeing a good (for me) non-neutral solution here.
I haven't been keeping up in this thread, this is a response to the last post.
No Lutron Caseta doesn't require a neutral, they have switches like for fan motors that do not, but the PD-6WCL does not. For your 3-4-5 ways you can add as many $15 picos as you'd like.
This is another no neutral https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KLAXFQA/ref=emc_b_5_t
Most of the switches in my house don't have neutrals and every switch but 3 has been converted to caseta dimmers and/or picos.
Thanks, that's great to hear, someone in a previous reply mentioned they needed a neutral.
Follow up question: does Caseta offer a 3-way, or main \ add-on options like the GE & Jasco, or does it have to be a switch and picos?
They don't need to. You don't even need to hook a traveler up, when you use the pico as the other switch. You get a 3 way switch without the need for ANY wires.
Suggest Lutron RadioRA2. Both neutral and non neutral dimmers, that look like real paddles. High WAF. Has the same high reliability that Caseta does without the polarizing look of the controls. Can use Picos. The hub integrates to all the HA platforms cleanly. A ton of color choices. You can do the install yourself for 100 device installs just by taking the test.
The batteries are rated for 10 year life span for a $15 device so not much of a concern here.
Here is the benefits of using Pico's
https://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/3672821.pdf
I was going from memory and I went back and looked and you can do this with the Inovelli red/black switches but only when you have neutrals.
I was in the same boat when we moved two years ago. We bought an older house with more land and most of the switches do not have neutrals in the box. All the fans in the house had two switches, which was great, but the put the two switches on the wall one of the other instead of in a two gang box side by side. So I just had electricians come in and rewire and add neutrals to most boxes.
The house has a Jack and Jill bathroom and I didn't change it as I thought we might redo that section of the house at a later point. Due to other things it may be awhile before we can get to it. So I did the three way myself, it also has no neutral, and it was fairly cheap, I put a Invoelli in at one switch and I hardwired the add on side. I put a Zen34 at the add-on. Been pretty happy with that setup. Through z-wave association the Zooz Zen34 directly controls the main switch so no rules required.
For 3-way instances you could also:
- Install GE no-neutral dimmer in the main location
- Wire secondary location permanent on in the box
- Install a Pico in that spot - Luton has a switchbox mount for Picos (requires the Lutron hub, of course, but once you have one Pico you're gonna want more.)
That way you can control the switch from either location, and you get to use the "normal" GE paddle switch your wife is used to in the main location, and use a Pico in the secondary location mounted in the box (Lutron offers a switch-box mount for Picos). My wife wants "normal" paddle switches on the walls as much as possible, but likes having Pico remotes on desks, and we have a couple of Picos in switch boxes for these type of 3-way instances in our home.
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I know this won't help you with your 3 way switch situation, but if you choose to go with the GE for your stand alone switch applications, it can be configured to work work as standard ON/Off switch. Parameter 16, Parameter size 1, Switch Mode: 0 - Dim Mode, 1 - Switch Mode. I have two of these working fine for me, one in switch mode.
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I like this approach. I suspected the Caseta was going to be a thing i would need to invest in, and I didn't realize there's a 2 button Pico as well as the 5 button model. I think the WAF would be OK this way. Yes the 2 button Pico is different than the GE paddle, but not as overwhelming as the multi-button model.
Only issue would be in cases when 1 or more hubs failed to work \ communicate, or power went out and before the hubs came back up, but she can always use the wired zwave wall switch.
I'm not super thrilled about having the Lutron hub along with the HE and the Hue controller...
If you want to skip the additional Lutron hub, you could use any other button/remote, the nice thing is that the Pico fits in the switch box.
However, Zooz has an option like this as well - doesn't require an additional hub...a battery operated paddle switch that can install in a switch box and also removed if desired (magenetic mount). I haven't used it but they generally make good products. I believe several members here have them...
This might be clear already, but just in case. Some caseta switches and dimmers require a neutral, some donât. Lutron always provides very detailed specs for all their devices, so you can check based on model #.
Ooooh, now you're talking...
I guess my suggestions weren't clear as I already suggested those twice, but I will say again it's good option.
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Yeah, that's my fault, I was trying to absorb so much and getting confused as to what options worked with what... I think I missed the connection there.
the zen34 certainly seems like a great alternative to the Pico, especially since I don't have the Lutron hub already, and it's the same paddle design and it's zwave. So I could technically change this stuff while she's not home and she may never know... 
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Its pretty close to a paddle type switch but it is slightly raised. Also you may want to buy one and try it, You have to be very deliberate about pressing them or they don't fire. So depending on how picky your family is it might be an issue.
Oh my goodness, we must be related. 
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