New user has WD-200+ problem

andy.pober · August 13, 2020, 11:16pm

Moving everything from SmartThings to a new C-7 w/2.2.3.118 - I hope.
So far I've moved a generic Z-Wave bulb, first of about 10. (Status OK). I can turn it on/off/dim from rules.

Finally managed to get a HS WD-200+ switch moved. (First of 7). (Status OK).
Looks like the hub is talking to the switch and the switch is responding. But no light.
And yes, I'm using the supported driver.

log:
commands from Hubitat-
L-Dining 2020-08-13 18:51:38.885 seqNo: 54, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 4ms, repeaters: [06], speed: 40 kbs, rssi: [-96 dBm, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A], 2020-08-13 18:51:38.685 seqNo: 53, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 4ms, repeaters: [06], speed: 40 kbs, rssi: [-97 dBm, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A], Ack channel: 1, Transmit channel: 1
L-Dining 2020-08-13 18:51:23.216 seqNo: 52, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 4ms, repeaters: [06], speed: 40 kbs, rssi: [-97 dBm, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A], Ack channel: 1, Transmit channel: 1

Local button presses-
L-Dining 2020-08-13 19:06:56.677 seqNo: 58, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 11ms, repeaters: [06], speed: 40 kbs, rssi: [-97 dBm, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A], Ack channel: 1, Transmit channel: 1
L-Dining 2020-08-13 19:06:43.801 seqNo: 58, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 30ms, repeaters: [06], speed: 100 kbs
L-Dining 2020-08-13 19:06:43.602 seqNo: 57, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 30ms, repeaters: [06], speed: 100 kbs, rssi: [-109 dBm, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A], Ack channel: 0, Transmit channel: 0
L-Dining 2020-08-13 19:06:25.309 seqNo: 57, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 4ms, repeaters: [06], speed: 100 kbs
L-Dining 2020-08-13 19:06:19.787 seqNo: 56, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 4ms, repeaters: [06], speed: 100 kbs, rssi: [-101 dBm, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A], Ack channel: 0, Transmit channel: 0
L-Dining 2020-08-13 19:06:19.390 seqNo: 55, routeChanged: true, transmissionTime: 3ms, repeaters: [06], speed: 100 kbs, rssi: [-100 dBm, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A], Ack channel: 0, Transmit channel: 0

any suggestions appreciated.

neonturbo · August 13, 2020, 11:22pm

Isn't that like next to no signal?

I can't help with the meaning of any of that, but I would be suspicious about it not having a good signal.

TechMedX · August 13, 2020, 11:33pm

-90 is the lowest reading on my WiFi spectrum analyzer (-20 being the best). I tell clients -70 is the cut over for reliability. However that is WiFi not Z-wave, but I agree that is a low RSSI

scottgu3 · August 13, 2020, 11:36pm

It's certainly not "hot", but I dunno if its too low.

Remember dBs are logarithmic, and every 3dB indicates a doubling or halving of the radiated power. So...-94 is twice as powerful as -97, and -100 would be half as powerful.

A lot depends on the modulation, local noise floor, etc. Does anyone with a Zniffer have exemplar measurements to compare?

I honestly don't know what a good RSSI would be.

S.

JasonJoel · August 13, 2020, 11:37pm

Zwave is a bit more forgiving than wifi though. Nodes can work very well into the -90s in most/many cases. That said, it is a pretty weak signal.

Example, this device works perfectly (and has for a year+), with -95 to -97 signal strength at full 100kbit speed. There are about 10 repeating devices between it and the hub, though, if it changes its mind.

I do start getting concerned in the -105+ range though.

andy.pober · August 13, 2020, 11:46pm

That's what I get for being lazy. Added a critical WD-200 next to the hub and it has a signal of -60. Works perfectly. I guess you really do have to build out the network from the hub outward. THANKS!

scottgu3 · August 13, 2020, 11:57pm

Interesting.

This thread: Zwave range and power - official forum. Indicates that it shouldn't even be possible to see an RSSI measured at -97, as the Zwave 500 chipset has a dynamic range of measurement of -94 to -32!

But, we clearly have measurements worse than that! Lol

S

JasonJoel · August 13, 2020, 11:58pm

Yup. Even on my zniffer I can see signals well into the -100s at times. How accurate those numbers are... Well... It isn't scientific grade equipment after all.

I typically try to stay >-90, but as long as the device works reliably I don't spend a lot of time stressing out about it.

scottgu3 · August 14, 2020, 12:00am

Agreed!

S.

JasonJoel · August 14, 2020, 12:01am

Maybe the antenna has less loss than they assume? But even then if the loss was 0 that would say you shouldn't be able to read less than -101 (but you can, and I do). Dunno.

scottgu3 · August 14, 2020, 12:04am

I expect the zniffer just implements the stack a bit differently, or makes some different assumptions about antenna gain or loss. Its also possible (probable) that the antenna has negative gain....

I believe your measurements for sure.

S.

JasonJoel · August 14, 2020, 12:07am

Routing choices are weird. We were discussing that in another thread today.

Here is another example that just popped up. There are at LEAST 7 or 8 powered repeating devices between the device below and the hub. I've run zwave repairs every day for the past week (for testing purposes - not to fix any issue), yet the device insists on being directly attached to the hub even though the signal strength sucks at -98.

Why? Who knows? Device works fine, though, so I guess it doesn't matter in the end.

[Media Room Thermostat](http://192.168.2.163/hub/zwaveLogs#zwaveRx50)2020-08-13 19:05:51.485 seqNo: 43, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 1ms, repeaters: None, speed: 100 kbs, rssi: [-98 dBm, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A], Ack channel: 0, Transmit channel: 0

[Media Room Thermostat](http://192.168.2.163/hub/zwaveLogs#zwaveRx50)2020-08-13 19:05:50.988 seqNo: 42, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 1ms, repeaters: None, speed: 100 kbs, rssi: [-98 dBm, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A], Ack channel: 0, Transmit channel: 0

neonturbo · August 14, 2020, 12:26am

On my Zigbee stuff I get concerned about signal in the mid 70s. But Zwave is a whole nother animal.

JasonJoel · August 14, 2020, 12:32am

I have ~~lots of~~ a few zigbee devices that operate perfectly normally in the mid -80s. But the vast majority of mine are in the -60s and low -70s.

I certainly wouldn't expect a zigbee device to work at the -95 to -100 a zwave device will.

EDIT Here's one now!

EDIT 2: After watching it for an hour, I actually only see one device in the -80s... Thought I had more, but maybe not.

TechMedX · August 14, 2020, 11:39am

Are you getting these logs from HE (C-7?), or some other device? Doesn't look like zniffer.

JasonJoel · August 14, 2020, 12:25pm

No, those are the HE logs. I do have a zigbee sniffer, but I don't keep it running all the time.

TechMedX · August 14, 2020, 12:56pm

But c7 right or c5? I don't have those readings on my c4 and only use c5 for customs apps and dashes. Wondering if I should suck it up and move everything and switch the loads.

JasonJoel · August 14, 2020, 1:32pm

Oh!!! Sorry. The zigbee logs have always shown signal strength, but the zwave logs are new in the C-7.

andy.pober · August 14, 2020, 10:35pm

Resolved. Everything is installed. What was interesting is the fact that the first device (a smart bulb) was actually further from the hub but worked fine. But is was a different kind of device... Once everything was up and running the signal to the Dining Room was fine but the dimmer still didn't work, Uninstalled and reinstalled without S2 and it worked. All the WD-200s were bought at the same time but some brought up the S2 dialog and some didn't. Unchecked the ones that did.

system · September 22, 2022, 5:41pm

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