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4

I have both Zigbee and Zwave devices.

Thanks for the reply. I will probably just go with aaiyar's suggestion. I could pay for the "service" as it isn't all that expensive but I refuse based on principle. I bought a device. I should be able to backup and restore everything without paying for a "service". That's a crappy business model.

Thanks

5

Thanks aaiyar. Never used hub mesh but it looks to be the easiest way to do things so I guess I'll learn something new. :slight_smile:

6

It’s not quite that simple, unfortunately.

I wish the built in backup could provide plug and play ability to move from an old hub to a new hub too.

It’s not that important for this discussion, but if you’re interested, there are other threads that go through the history of why they ended up doing it this way.

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7

Thanks. After my initial post I think I might have come across some of those threads. I didn't really read much as to the why's and wherefore's but again, I completely disagree that it should be a paid service. I paid around 150 dollars for the first hub years ago. Now I'm paying 130 for a new one and to find that I have to pay for a "service" to migrate years worth of work to the new hub I'm paying dearly for doesn't make me very happy. But, I'll just bite the bullet and resign myself to having 2 hubs.

Thanks again!

8

I think what it boils down to is, it can get complicated to migrate physical devices from one hub to another, when it’s a multi-protocol hub like Hubitat.

The solution they came up with costs them money (cloud processing is never free), and it’s actually more of an insurance policy for restoring the same hub if it blows up (they will replace the hub if it has died). I find it valuable enough that I pay for it.

All the work you did (your rules, and virtual devices at least), is always freely backed up and restored with the built-in hub backup function.

But I digress. Have you looked at any other keypad solutions?

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9

How many physical devices do you have, and are they Z-Wave or Zigbee?

The manual migration procedure is pretty straightforward- just download a local backup, restore that to the new hub, then unpair and re-pair each Z-Wave device from the hub out. For Zigbee, the devices attach easily once you reset them.

Manual migration process is here. I did it over a weekend.

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10

OK now you mentioned something that will be a big help. Virtual devices are backed up, that will be a BIG help.

I'm not angry about the way things are, it's just principle with me. And maybe there are things I don't understand and I'm totally off base.

I will look at some of the threads, if there are legitimate reasons why the devices aren't backed up then I might even pay for the "service". As I said, it's not expensive.

Thanks much, I thought even virtual devices would have to be recreated.

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11

Virtual devices exist only within the hub database. The database is part of that built in, free backup.

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12

Thanks 672southmain. I've had a c-5 since they the latest and greatest and honestly, it's pretty much been a "set it and forget it" kind of thing. So now that I'm adding a few new things and kind of getting back in to playing with it. Until the last few days, I assumed everything was backed up and it would just be a simple restore for everything.

I'll look at the info you provided. Thanks!

13

Well that will make it much easier for sure! I trigger a lot of Alexa routines because of some wifi devices I have and there are dozens of virtual devices. Knowing I don't have to recreate them cut out probably more than 50 percent of the work.

Thanks again!

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14

Well, a couple of caveats:

In some cases, for cloud services integrations, you may need to generate a new token for the new hub. I believe I had to do this for a couple of them. It was a year ago, and I am in my seventies, so I don’t recall everything precisely. You will understand “senior moments” as you get older.

I seem to recall that the manual migration process didn’t work on parent/child devices. I have a ZEN16, and I seem to recall that I had to manually swap the child devices into the rules and Dashboard. No big deal.

I seem to recall that the manual migration didn’t work on devices that were paired securely (Schlage locks), and I had to manually swap them into the Rules and Dashboard, etc.

Furthermore, it didn’t affect me, but it did affect some people: there are some devices that work well with the C-5’s Z-Wave 500 chip, but that don’t play well with the C-7’s Z-Wave 700 chip. Check the Compatible Devices list. You could always leave problematic devices on the C-5 and share to the C-7 using Hub Mesh.

Finally, you will come to experience the joy of device pairing (and, especially, S0/S2/None security pairing) on the C-7. It’s MUCH better than the experience we had last year when the C-7 was introduced, but it’s not perfect.

Edit:
You don’t have to do the migration all at once; you can migrate some devices and share the others from the C-5 using Hub Mesh. Just be aware, as you build the mesh on the C-7, you will be tearing down the mesh on the C-5 (Z-Wave and Zigbee), and thus will cause routing havoc for those stranded devices on the C-5 whose routes become broken.

Have fun!

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15

I don't know if this has been mentioned earlier, but Hub Protect is not a migration service. It is a annual warranty service. If your hub fails during the warrranty period, then Hub Protect will provide you with a new hub.

That new hub will already have the hub's database restored (automations, virtual devices, placeholders for zigbee devices), as well as the z-wave radio database restored. The only devices that will have to be reset an re-paired are zigbee devices. These devices will slot back into their pre-existing placeholders.

While some users may have viewed Hub Protect as a migration service, that is not how Hubitat has positioned it.

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16

Wow, I didn't know that. That is definitely worth looking into!

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17

Ha ha! I'm 61 and already having those "senior moments" so I know what you mean!

Thanks for all your help and guidance.

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18

I alluded to it above, but @aaiyar’s description of the hub protect service is much clearer than what I mentioned.

I’m getting them occasionally, at age 38. I blame covid :mask:.

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19

My new hub should arrive today. I have a couple questions.

First, I do not see the option for Hub Mesh under devices. Do I need to install something, or is that an option that doesn't show until I have both hubs online?

Second, can both hubs be in close proximity to each other, or is there a minimum amount of space required so they don't interfere with each other?

I'm going to run both and as I have time, move things from the old one until the point where I can decommission it. But the more I have learned about the subscription service (Thanks for that everyone) the more I'm leaning towards purchasing it anyway. I didn't realize that included a new hub, that's a very good deal.

20

OK, I have the new hub all set up and still no Hub Mesh button on either device. Do I need to install something? I've been searching for an answer but don't see any place where it says I need to install an app.

21

Never mind. The documentation shows a button under devices that does not exist. I found it under settings and I'm rebooting now after enabling it.

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22

It should be at the top of the devices page. I don’t use it myself, but you’re probably right that you need at least two hubs to be online first. See documentation page:

https://docs.hubitat.com/index.php?title=Hub_Mesh

Yes, although you’ll want to ensure the zigbee channels of each hub aren’t overlapping. This post explains that a bit more:

Edit: didn’t notice your last post til just now. Maybe the documentation page is out of date…

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23

Yeah, it must be. I found it though so all is good there.

Edited because I forgot what thread I was on and posted some stuff about the Ring Keypad. Another senior moment! :grinning:

Thanks for all your help!