We just bought an apartment. When we looked at it the owner boasted "One remote to control everything". We moved in - no remote, and nobody seems to know where it is. I have learned that basically every outlet and switch is on zwave. So, what do I do? New hub? What version? Remote control? Or use phone to control? Thanks in advance for your help!
Can you get the brands and model numbers of the switches and outlets?
2 Likes
From the POV of cost I'd rather have all the devices and no Hub, than a Hub and no devices.
6 Likes
If they're Z-Wave devices, you need a Z-Wave hub. You might reach out to your realtor/lawyer about whether that promise amounted to keeping the hub as part of the apartment, in which case you're due either the hub or the cost of the hub. However, if the purchase contract didn't specify the hub was being left behind, you may be on your own.
In that case, you'll need a Z-Wave hub to pair everything to and set up your automations. Obviously we'll recommend Hubitat for that, but there are others out there as well.
2 Likes
I would have expected that the previous owner would leave all or nothing. Maybe he left the remote receiver too eg an IR or RF sensor.
Assuming the hub (which isn’t really a remote) has gone then the easiest, assuming it was Hubitat, would be to contact the seller. The remote and the hub are two different components. If they were correctly insistent that it wasn’t included then one easier option might be to agree to buy him a new replacement hub and have him supply the previous one. He likely will have to delete some automations but the old hub will already be paired to your ZWave devices which saves a lot of hassle for you.
Or maybe he could restore his backup to a brand new hub, again deleting any personal passwords etc. this would have to have been made using the hub cloud backup service to restore complete ZWave details. The hub cost is an insignificant amount in this transaction although support is another matter.
In the UK I think the selling details become legal and so in a situation like this must include functionality that was stated.
2 Likes
We tried for weeks to get an answer from the owners but they are elderly and I think the system was set up by one of their kids, who may have wanted the hub for their own use. That's not a big deal, though it would have been worth paying them from what I understand about setup time.
The answer from this board seems clear - get a new hub and then link all the devices (must be dozens! But I am a software developer so I don't expect it will be too difficult). In thanks for this valuable community board, I will purchase from Hubitat.
I'll update when I get the hub and get things connected (unless I need more help before then!)
Thanks for the input!
Aaron
2 Likes
OK, I already have a question: does version matter? Model C8 vs Model C7?
It only matters if you want MATTER. 
C-8 has better antennas (wireless range), Wi-Fi, and has added early support for a new home automation protocol called Matter. C-7 is perfectly fine and cheaper. I'd probably buy C-8 for the better range and newer hardware, but you won't go far wrong with either.
4 Likes
I'll go for the better range. Thanks!
Sorry, but I didn't see an answer to @aaiyar's question
Best to find out if the devices are on the compatility list. Most of the major Z-Wave switches are supported, but to avoid dissapointment, you would be wise to find out what Z-Wave brand and model of switches you have.
It also appears an assumption was made as some point in this thread that the previous hub was a Hubitat Elevation, but I don't see that written anywhere here. Therefor the advice of pulling a backup isn't going to be possible if the previous hub wasn't a Hubitat Elevation hub.
3 Likes
I asked this question for a specific reason. Z-wave devices exist in at least 5 generations (100 series, 300 series, 500 series, 700 series, and 800 series).
Earlier devices (100 series, and 300 series) will give a pretty miserable automation experience with most modern z-wave controllers - like a Hubitat C-7 or C-8.
If I purchased a home and then discovered it to be equipped with 100 and 300 series Z-wave devices, I would not rush into purchasing an automation hub at this moment. I would probably determine whether my budget could accommodate replacing those devices with newer devices. And whether z-wave is the automation technology that would best serve my needs.
5 Likes
I agree with @aaiyar, if they are 100 or 300 remove and toss.
Next find the brand, if everything is a current mainstream supplier and => 500 series get the method to factory reset the Z-Wave back to Include ready.
Order a C8 as the antennae are worth it. I did the C7 external mod before upgrading, you don't need that hassle.
Enjoy the journey!
2 Likes
Is there an easy way to determine what generation your zwave devices are? Would the device status page offer a clue?
Thanks for the update. Already ordered the C8 hub, but presumably that can be returned. Here is some info. One of the light switches is a GE Dimmable Model ZW3001-WCS with a Zwave logo on the side. Some other markings include 3MWZ Appliance Controls, JASCO products, Version 2.0a, and "Date code: 0934".
Thoughts?
If not Zwave, then what else? We could use better wifi in the apartment - the extender I have isn't great, and I have to keep switching from the main wifi to the extender when I move. If there Zwave can fix this, or some other tech can fix this problem, that would be important.
Thanks again for the great help!
1 Like
This is a 300-series device. If the others are of the same vintage, then they are all older z-wave devices.
If you really want automation, then I would recommend either replacing all the z-wave devices with newer z-wave+ versions. Or replacing them with Lutron Caseta dimmers and switches.
Another consideration: "remove and toss" would be easy in a relatively new house, but in this 1962 New York apartment building, the wiring is extremely difficult to work with. The wires are thick and very stiff (changing out the switch I referenced above took a half hour just to bend the wires back into place). It'd be a pain.
Will the C8 hub not work at all or will it work poorly, and in the latter case, does that mean setup is hard but once past that it should be fine, or setup is fine but it'll be sketchy in operation? (Or hard to set up and sketchy!)
Thanks!
Food for thought, but I have some hella old, crusty, stiff, and britle wires in a good portion of my house.
After too many times of banging my head against the wall (sometime literally!) trying to oh-so delicately maneuver those wires onto new devices, I finally figured out it was much easier to cut them back a reasonable amount (not too much!), attach new pigtails, and then carefully push all the old wiring as far back in the box as possible. Then just use the new pigtails.
Box fill is an understandable issue -- those same parts of my house have maddeningly small boxes. Using Wagos instead of nuts and using stranded-wire pigtails (instead of solid wire) both help a ton.
That technique has made any subsequent device swaps a ton easier, and I don't have to worry nearly as much about breaking or further weakening the old wires since they're tucked in pretty safe & sound back there.
2 Likes
Are you sure there isn't already a hub there? It might be hidden in a weird place. You could try a z-wave sniffer to see if there is something you can find, although being in an apartment, you might find many devices.
Just curious. Do you have conduit or romex wiring. If you were in Chicago it would be conduit - maybe even heavywall conduit (lol). Anyway perhaps if you have conduit you could consider pulling in new thhn wiring. Should not be that hard a job and you could add neutrals where you need them. And the #14 awg copper wire would be a piece of cake to form and put in the electrical box. I am saying #14 wire because that is the standard for 15 amp circuits. Even if the code requires you to pull #12 wire it would not be that difficult of a job.
I assume you own this apartment - otherwise I doubt you would be messing with the electric.
