Need some advice on unreliable Zwave in one room

The Zwave plugs in one room of my house have always been unreliable. That room was using 2 very old Jasco Zwave plugs (Zwave 200chips?). I thought replacing the old Jaso plugs with new Ministron Zwave plugs would solve the issue – it did not!

The new Ministron plugs behave erratically – sometimes they respond immediately, sometimes they respond after 10 or 20 seconds, sometimes they don't respond. The plugs are within 10 feet of each other, and within 15 feet of the nearest working powered Zwave device.

My setup is a Hubitat C-5 with about 10 powered Zwave devices distributed throughout my 2400 sq. foot home. The network has been stable and rock solid for over 2 years (except for the one room).

I have tried doing a Z-wave repair, and also tried rebooting the C-5 hub. After the the repair and after the reboot I waited 24hrs to see if the network would work itself out - it did not.

What should I try next? Should I completely delete my Zwave network and rebuild ( yuck ) ? Would upgrading the hub from C-5 to C-7 help? Switch to Zigbee?

Update 09/20/2023: After several failed attempts (see thread) I think I found the solution - which is to add a z-wave plug/repeater to the room directly above the problem room.

The solution was not immediately apparent to me, as I already have other repeaters near the problem room, and also have other devices much further away from the hub that are stable and reliable.

The problem room is my woodworking shop. It has a cast iron sink, cast iron table saw, aluminum sheets for my track saw, hand saws, metal heating pipes, ceiling hung lights with metal reflectors. I'm assuming this all created an environment that was problematic for the 900mgz z-wave signal. I had to try several locations for the z-wave repeater to find a place where it can reliably communicate with the plugs in the problem room.

The C5 I do not think even gives you route info on the details page correct? There is not much info to help with troubleshooting. How far are they from the hub, and how far is the possible repeater from the hub? Another strategically placed repeater may help. Zooz 800 Series Z-Wave Plus Range Extender ZAC38 - The Smartest House

If they only have one good route and it is not ideal, they may keep going into a re-routing discovery which is causing the delays. Having two different possible routes would at least let it swap between the two when one is not working fast enough, hopefully without much delay.

Did you properly exclude the old plugs from the mesh?

Is there any other equipment (noise generators) in that room?. WiFi router?

I was unable to get the hub to find the old Jasto plugs, so I used "force exclusion"

The room is used as a woodworking shop in the basement. I can't think of any equipment that would be causing electrical noise.

The plugs are about 15 feet from the nearest repeater (a Zooz in wall dimmer). The plugs are about 25 feet from the hub.

Are the old devices still showing up in the z-wave details list?
Or do these get hidden automatically on the C5 when the attached device entry is removed (sorry I have never used a C5)?

You might have ghost nodes on the zwave mesh which can sometimes cause issues although I think it is more of an issue on the C7+ models.

Is the Zooz dimmer the only other good route they would have besides direct?

Is the wood shop by chance below the garage with a spancrete floor? Or otherwise what is the construction of the home? Concrete? Studs and Drywall? Lathe and Plaster?

What type of electrical boxes do you have, metal or plastic?

Still you have 4 (2 + 2) units not working in this one room. I would have to think there is something in or about that room that is causing the issues.

An easy test would be to run an extension cord from another room (i.e. different electrical circuit where things are working) to see if there is something on that circuit is the issue.

Next I would turn off the circuit breaker going to the room with the issue.

I would also move one of the failing devices to a room where things are known to work well.

Can you post your z-wave details page in its entirety?

One reason I'm thinking of upgrading from c-5 to c-7 is apparently c-7 will give me the ability to see the z-wave network routing.

There are many other powered z-wave devices nearby: 2nd zooz z-wave dimmer 20 feet, zooz z-wave appliance plug 20 feet, 3rd zooz z-wave dimmer 25 feet.

The old devices are not on z-wave details list.

The wood shop is below the first floor bedroom. The house is wood frame with wood lath and plaster (1930s construction). The electrical boxes are metal.

I found a zooz z-wave appliance plug that is in my network, but was UNPLUGGED. I plugged it back in and ran a "Repair z-wave". I'll let this settle for a day and see if it helps.

I'm curious about z-wave range extenders. Do you know if they offer additional functionality over a z-wave plug? Why wouldn't I just use a z-wave plug which also provides the switch functionality?

Here is the z-wave details page.
The offending devices are "Shop ceiling lights" and "Shop bench light"

Z-Wave Radio Devices

Node Device ID Device Type Clusters Device Last Sent Last Received
0x10 (016) 57348 28672 in: 0x5E, 0x85, 0x8E, 0x59, 0x31, 0x55, 0x86, 0x72, 0x5A, 0x73, 0x80, 0x9F, 0x71, 0x87, 0x70, 0x84, 0x6C, 0x7A, out: Shop T. H. (Zooz)
0x12 (018) 9500 45329 in: 0x5E, 0x25, 0x85, 0x8E, 0x59, 0x55, 0x86, 0x72, 0x5A, 0x73, 0x70, 0x5B, 0x6C, 0x9F, 0x7A, out: Basement Main Room Lights Switch 2023-09-18 3:02:57am CDT 2023-09-18 3:02:57am CDT
0x02 (002) 9500 45329 in: 0x5E, 0x86, 0x72, 0x5A, 0x73, 0x85, 0x59, 0x25, 0x27, 0x20, 0x70, out: Back Steps Light Switch 2023-09-18 3:02:57am CDT 2023-09-18 3:02:57am CDT
0x13 (019) 12336 21072 in: 0x25, 0x2B, 0x2C, 0x27, 0x75, 0x73, 0x70, 0x86, 0x72, out: Kitchen Under Cabint Lights 2023-09-18 3:02:57am CDT 2023-09-18 3:02:57am CDT
0x05 (005) 13 257 in: 0x5E, 0x25, 0x32, 0x27, 0x2C, 0x2B, 0x70, 0x85, 0x59, 0x72, 0x86, 0x7A, 0x73, 0x5A, out: Sump Pump Plug 2023-09-18 1:01:25pm CDT
0x07 (007) 8705 8226 in: 0x5E, 0x86, 0x72, 0x5A, 0x85, 0x59, 0x73, 0x80, 0x71, 0x84, 0x7A, 0x98, out: Back Door Contact 2023-09-18 12:31:45pm CDT 2023-09-18 12:31:40pm CDT
0x08 (008) 8705 8226 in: 0x5E, 0x86, 0x72, 0x5A, 0x85, 0x59, 0x73, 0x80, 0x71, 0x84, 0x7A, 0x98, out: Front Door Contact 2023-09-18 12:16:42pm CDT 2023-09-18 12:16:37pm CDT
0x09 (009) 2147483647 21570 in: 0x5E, 0x59, 0x5A, 0x40, 0x42, 0x43, 0x44, 0x45, 0x80, 0x70, 0x31, 0x8F, 0x86, 0x72, 0x85, 0x2C, 0x2B, 0x73, 0x81, 0x7A, out: Dinnning Rm Thermostat 2023-09-18 5:00:00am CDT 2023-09-18 6:28:21am CDT
0x0A (010) 9500 45329 in: 0x5E, 0x86, 0x72, 0x5A, 0x73, 0x85, 0x59, 0x25, 0x27, 0x20, 0x70, out: Front Hall Light 2023-09-18 3:02:57am CDT 2023-09-18 3:03:00am CDT
0x0B (011) 1345 3 in: 0x5E, 0x72, 0x5A, 0x98, 0x73, 0x7A, out: Back Door Lock
0x0C (012) 1 2 in: 0x5E, 0x30, 0x84, 0x80, 0x86, 0x72, 0x71, 0x70, 0x85, 0x59, 0x73, 0x5A, out: Garage Door Contact 2023-09-18 11:32:59am CDT 2023-09-18 11:32:59am CDT
0x0D (013) 13 257 in: 0x5E, 0x25, 0x32, 0x27, 0x2C, 0x2B, 0x70, 0x85, 0x59, 0x72, 0x86, 0x7A, 0x73, 0x5A, out: Dehumidifier Plug 2023-09-17 2:08:48pm CDT 2023-09-18 10:27:10am CDT
0x2E (046) 65292 65280 in: 0x5E, 0x25, 0x70, 0x85, 0x8E, 0x59, 0x55, 0x86, 0x72, 0x5A, 0x87, 0x73, 0x9F, 0x6C, 0x7A, out: Shop Bench Light 2023-09-18 10:49:46am CDT 2023-09-18 10:49:48am CDT
0x0F (015) 40968 40960 in: 0x5E, 0x26, 0x25, 0x85, 0x8E, 0x59, 0x55, 0x86, 0x72, 0x5A, 0x73, 0x70, 0x5B, 0x60, 0x9F, 0x6C, 0x7A, out: Bathroom Ceiling Light 2023-09-18 3:02:57am CDT 2023-09-18 5:19:19am CDT
0x2F (047) 65292 65280 in: 0x5E, 0x25, 0x70, 0x85, 0x8E, 0x59, 0x55, 0x86, 0x72, 0x5A, 0x87, 0x73, 0x9F, 0x6C, 0x7A, out: Shop Ceiling Lights 2023-09-18 10:49:44am CDT 2023-09-18 10:49:44am CDT

Supposedly they are supposed to make better repeaters but people have had mixed results. Sometimes you put one somewhere and nothing routes through it, no better than a regular plug.

All of the switches and dimmers in the metal boxes are probably making bad repeaters due to the metal boxes. The ZEN15 appliance plug is probably their best bet.

@JohnRob gave some suggestions above that could be useful in further pin pointing the exact cause of the issues.

Can you use windows snip to screen shot it, very difficult to read like this

That is what a C5 route table looks like. You can't get the same info like a C7 and above.

Not sure what you can tell from this, but I can copy and paste into excel (unicode) and have an editable table.

Here are the snips of my Zwave details page.



I think I'll move the zooz appliance plug close to the offending plugs, then do a Zwave repair and let that settle for a few hours.

Ahh, ok, forgot you said you have a c5. My concern was ghosts, but the only way to tell with the c5 is with a z-wave stick.

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