I have a basement Z-Wave switch problem that I am blaming on the metal box but I don't know what to do about it.
it is a basement dimmer switch that communicate fine if the switch is hanging out of the metal box.
once I insert the switch into the box and screw it down Z-Wave communications fails
I have 4 other basement switches surrounding the problem switch and they work fine. One other Z-Wave switch is even on the same breaker and that is fine.
I even installed a repeater directly across from the switch with no improvement
The switch is a Zooz Zen72 dimmer and I have replaced the switch with two others and the problem persists
So has anyone else come across this problem? As far as I understand the antenna is in the front of the switch so signal should not be attenuated that much by installing in a metal box so I am wondering about other interference.
Has anyone tried a piece of insulated wire from outside the box to the inside to bring the signal into the box?
Tough to do without damaging drywall but I guess it is the proper next step. It just bugs me the other dozen or so other Z-Wave switches in metal boxes work fine.
defo double check me on this but i thought the antenna on this device is right behind the paddle. The paddle is removeable so you should be able to pop off the paddle to check and ensure the antenna is not damaged. You are correct metal box interference SHOULD be minimal if the antenna is behind the paddle.
you say you have 4 other basement switches surrounding the problem switch… are they also zwave and paired to the same hub? If so they would all be repeating devices and adding repeating devices would not help.
You already have insulated wire from outside the box… you should have at least 4, line, load, neutral and ground… So, no this wont help.
Is this the only device in the box or does this switch have neibours?
Also what is the distance between the problem device and the hub?
what is the distance between the problem device and the nearest zwave device paired to the same hub?
As a Chicagoan where all boxes are metal I feel the frustration. All mine (none Zooz) currently work, but it took some time futzing with them. You might want to try a Zooz ZAC38 range extender with 800 series chip.
Are your switch plates plastic or metal? Plastic will work better
Is the ZEN72 the 800 LR version? If not that may be worth trying as the radio is more robust.
I’ve done it a bunch of times. It helps to have an oscillating tool. And a template for the old-work box you’ll be replacing it with.
These are the steps I follow:
Remove the outlet/switch.
Remove the retaining metal clip to free the NM cable.
Figure out which side of the box is nailed into a stud.
Use the template for the replacement box to mark the wall.
Using the oscillating tool, remove the excess drywall.
Using a dowel and a mallet, knock the metal box slightly away from the stud.
Put the oscillating tool between the stud and the metal box and cut each of the nails.
Once the nails are cut, the old box will come out easily. If the cut nails are not flush with the stud (they should be), use pliers to gently pry them out.
Pre-drill two small holes in the replacement box on the side that will face the stud.
Slip the box in, and use two screws to anchor it to the stud - this works way better than using the clips to anchor it to the dry wall.
I use 14 ga stranded conductor to connect the device to the solid conductor in the wall with Wago connectors. Stranded conductors are way easier to push back into the box, and Wagos are easier to deal with than wire-nuts.
Yes the antenna wire is underneath the paddle so technically outside of the metal box.
That said, I have two 3-ganged boxes and I have had issues with the centre switch in both boxes. I think the close proximity to other zwave switches has an impact.
I've switched out 15+ device boxes from metallic to non-metallic. They varied anywhere from 1 to 4-gang. Carefully done it is possible, but various problems can arise. Unless familiar and comfortable working with residential line-voltage wiring, I'd recommend having someone do this for you.
In Canada, there are variations in code requirements for non-metallic boxes. Old work boxes that meet Canadian code are anything but common. There are lots available at everyone's A->Z online store, but this doesn't mean they are code compliant.
Boxes for Canada require a grounding tab that isn't present on products for the US marketplace. So far, the only old work box I've found is made by Arlington. They must be ordered with the 'GC' suffix on the part number to include the necessary tab.
I'm not sure where the OP is located, but given the issue of metallic boxes, I'm assuming there's a good chance it's Canada. Arlington part numbers with grounding tabs are:
F101GC - Single Gang
F101HGC - Single Gang (Horizontal)
F102GC - Double Gang
F103GC - Triple Gang
F104GC - Quad Gang
After replacing the metallic boxes, my Z-Wave performance has completely resolved. Obviously, a strong mesh is still necessary.
Or an older home in the US. My previous home, built in 1985, had metal boxes everywhere that I replaced during a gut and remodel in 2006. My present house, built in 1969, was rewired in the early '90s. It also has metal boxes that I am slowly replacing to accommodate smart switches and receptacles.
Hi
Thank you all that responded. I found the problem, I am an idiot.
What had happened is I installed a three way switch on a stairwell that was on the same circuit and I made the mistake of wiring the problem switch to the switched output of the three way instead of the hot wire.
So when I had the problem switch pulled out, the stairwell switch was on (so I had light to see) powering the problem switch and everything worked.
When I reinstalled the problem switch into the box and tested the stairwell switch was off and the problem switch wouldn't work.
I blame part of the problem is that I have a background in digital electronics so of course my mind went off on a tangent thinking of complex problems instead of focusing on the basics.
So sorry I took up people's time on this...
.
