As I said I’m just curious, I’m not looking for a debate either. No need to be sarcastic or dismissive.
1 Like
The Caseta switches are extremely reliable. They also have direct HomeKit support which customer seem to like (iPhone people that is).
1 Like
I pretty sure @marktheknife knows that. He had Caseta switches in his old house and has an RA2 system in his new house. His question was why someone else, who also uses Caseta switches, considered them to be overpriced.
For the record, my dimmers/switches are all Caseta, and I think they are priced appropriately.
4 Likes
Caseta switches cost more than some other brands. The premium is well worth it, IMO. I value my time greatly, and they work extremely well, don’t require troubleshooting because of mesh issues, etc. Even the mega premium of RadioRA 2 is well worth it, if you ask me.
3 Likes
I had lost hope on the leap stuff seeing as I thought hubitats position was not to build integrations against unpublished / not public apis.
Can we take it you are considering this one?
I could most definitely be wrong, but I would take Bruce's statement to suggest the need for a LEAP integration will most likely be fulfilled through a community app and not an official built-in HE app.
2 Likes
Until last week, I was actively purchasing Caseta switches for three different buildings we own, and recommending them to others. One has only Casetas, while the other two were getting new Caseta switches instead of Z-wave, despite my Z-wave networks performing beautifully. I did make an offhand comment in this thread about them being "overpriced", simply because I hate paying a very significant premium for them including some models that can be 2x that of a comparable Z-wave, and hard to find at that. I say the same thing about Apple products, but continue to buy only that brand for myself and our employees (feel free to jump on that comment as well). Bottom line: I vote with my money, even if I do think something is priced higher than I'd like. It was an offhand comment, not a manifesto.
Two things: First, I now don't know what to do about future Casetas (or anything from Lutron) because now I'm confused about where Lutron is going with something that will allow me to use Hubitat with future switches, or not break the connections I now have. Nice move, Lutron... Confusing your customers is always a brilliant move (that's sarcasm, just to be clear). So, I'll likely pause on my Lutron purchases.
Next, I withdrew my earlier comments because apparently, somehow, they caused controversy.
1 Like
I agree. But I would speculate that Lutron doesn't see hobbyists as their customer base at all... And in my opinion this just solidifies it. They only care about large, partner integrators.
I mean, I guess I get it. Why deal with thousands of end customers if you can meet your sales targets only dealing with ~5 partners?
4 Likes
Agreed.
I’m sure they care at least a little bit about consumers that use the Caseta line. But as far as I can tell (I’m just a customer with minimal DIY skills, not a Lutron integrator/dealer etc.), since it’s only one of their product lines, and the others like RadioRA 2 (and now RadioRA 3), RA2 select and Homeworks are intended for larger scale installations and direct integration with other high-end systems by professionals, they’re unlikely to cater specifically to the needs of the DIY smart home users over the pro-level/commercial installations.
2 Likes
They primarily sell RadioRA and Homeworks through their dealer/distributor network of about 900 (my guess) small businesses that actually sell and install their lighting and shades systems. Those dealer's customers are not DIY. This is the channel they cater to and protect. Caséta is the obvious exception, as are their 'dumb' dimmers and switches. But come on, they sell more dimmers worldwide than all competitors combined.
4 Likes
Yep, given their track record, it’s hard to argue that they don’t know what they’re doing (even if one doesn’t agree with, or doesn’t personally benefit from their business decisions).
2 Likes
It's an interesting company. Family owned and controlled from day one. No bank debt. No Wall Street analysts to put up with or cater to. They do things the way they want and don't answer to anyone except their customers. Arguably, they have very solid engineering and product design. As an end customer, I can't really complain because it all works so well. Their technical support is first rate, and free forever. Their dealers, who are their real customers, love Lutron because they make good money from selling/installing a Lutron system, and they don't ever have to roll a truck to fix it.
8 Likes
Yup... It's all fun and games until they decide to change/break the hacked together/reverse engineered LEAP python library. 
Then see how many people are happy with Lutron... lol
They make great stuff, and it has been a cool system IN THE PAST. Moving forward with LEAP and no telnet I'm not excited at all about using Lutron. Yet another walled garden.
But whatever. Each to their own. Lutron's path forward with LEAP made me decide to not pull the trigger on the $5K+ of equipment I was going to order (at least for now, I'll wait and see where RRa3 ends up). So I should thank them I guess.
3 Likes
Seems like that would also break existing installations with their partner companies. Thus, unlikely to happen, IMHO. Also, in the Radio RA2 world at least, the firmware on the repeater is never updated, unless one chooses to do so. There are no automatic cloud updates, as far as what I saw during the training I took. Not sure how Radio RA3 will work, though. Caseta firmware is automagically updated, however.
I have Home Assistant running just to mess around with it. I believe it uses LEAP nowadays for everything but Pico remotes. I was amazed at how simple it was to add Caseta to Hass. Just click on the Integration, which then tells you to press the button on the back of the SmartBridge, and all devices are immediately discovered and added. Very similar to adding a Hue bridge to Hass. I was impressed with how easy it was. Also, Caseta Motion detectors are exposed to Hass using this integration. My Picos were added automatically as well, since I have the SmartBridge Pro, and thus Telnet is used for those.
2 Likes
Lutron's statement has been that they are open to integrating with other systems and are not limiting to the "big guys". But that's about all that has been said publicly. @bravenel has Hubitat made an inquiry to Lutron about developing a LEAP integration?
In any case, I have to imagine they will open up over time. One of their selling point is the ability to integrate. There are a lot of smaller companies, including both dealers and 3rd parties that have developed Telnet integrations that will need to change to LEAP or stop offering integration.
4 Likes
I agree somewhat, and I apologize in advance for what is about to be a ramble. Lutron is great, and I think they know that. They also know that there is this "unsaid" / "unsupported" group of people like us. Their main goal is to make sure the high-end market is served well with Ra2/Ra3, while advancing their technology. I do think LEAP is a much better approach to integration for that segment, and for the DIY folks. The only hiccup is that LEAP so far hasn't been opened down-market. I haven't personally asked Lutron, but perhaps we are making a big deal out of something that isn't really a big deal yet? I could imagine it goes something like this "Hey Lutron, Hubitat community here, you should check us out. We have a strong base of developers and DIYers that will continue to buy your stuff and help you make money and advance your product through enthusiast and technical feedback. What do you say you help us out by opening up the LEAP integration to us?"
The reason I am still optimistic is that they clearly know downmarket is valuable to them. Otherwise they wouldn't have been investing heavily in devices / shades aimed at the big-box style consumer smarthome (Home Depot, Lowes, etc). They likely have some internal debates going on about what the secret sauce is, and is it really LEAP vs. Telnet. I'd hope they quickly realize the secret sauce isn't LEAP, and that its their dealer network and the remote programability for the mid to high end deployments who simply don't want to DIY.
Hubitat + Lutron LEAP for President, 2022. 
4 Likes
Is there any update on the Leap integration and/or does the old Telnet work with a RA3 hub?
Pretty sure the Lutron RA3 main repeater hasn’t even been officially released to purchase, yet. All research thus far has shown that there will not be any Telnet support available in the RA3. And thus far, Hubitat has not mentioned any support for LEAP.
We have RA3 repeaters on order, won't be here until Q1 next year, we are looking into LEAP support, and that's all we're going to say about it right now.
16 Likes
Thank you for the update.
