My z-wave frustrations - mesh issues?

Add some aeotec 6 or 7 repeaters..This should strengthen your mesh a lot

Then the devices are simply too far away / have too much interference between them and the hub (plaster walls? Metal objects? Etc), or you have a defective hub (less likely).

Signal strengths that LOW are (probably) not going to work reliably long term, and you need to bring the hub closer or get more repeating devices between the hub and your existing devices.

I have a few devices on the edge of my network that are negative too, but only -1 or -2 and work reliably. Remember, dB is a logarithmic scale, so your -10 dB is about an 8x lower signal than one at -1 dB.

3 Likes

Thank you for the advice. I will be adding another Aeotec Nano Dimmer to a position closer to the hub over the next few days. Hopefully that will make life better. I will update as soon as I have.

I have a kwikset z-wave+ lock used to have connection issue but once I put a powered z-wave switch midway with the hub, it's solved. So far, I haven't experienced z-wave issue other than Fibaro Eye doesn't like to accept configuration which I think it's a separate issue (generally I think Fibaro devices are overpriced for its performance/reliability). So, I think where to place the repeaters is important.

The other factor I consider is Zigbee is using same 2.4GHz as Wifi. When you have many connected devices, that could cause Wifi interference issue and many end users don't know that and it's not generally said in setting up zigbee hub to choose different channel (and you're competing with your neighbors too) that not used by wifi.

1 Like

This is true BUT they are tiny radios using quarter wave antennas (sorry.. aerial) They listen for ZWave signals and capture the Node IDs of what they hear. Then the Hub will ask each for a list of their neighbors... each device sends back to the hub the info it's found.

The hub then builds a mesh from what it learned and sends slivers of the mesh routing back out to the individual devices. More or less on the order of "OK, you can hear 5 devices but I only need you for these two, and here's two routes back to me."

The problems are vast, but consider a situation where 1 or more devices are outside the reach of any device. The hub will never get a neighbor report. Even if the device heard the request and sent it, if that device has a useless route, then it can't get the answer back. How's it get a useless route??? It joined the network close to the Hub and then got moved. The route to use when it's 2 ft from the hub is quite different from when it's 40 ft away and needs 2 hops.

My point is NOT to identify a problem in your situation, but to add one more dollop of info to you so you can better "see" a ZWave mesh. :smiley:

2 Likes

I agree - found this post to be helpful.

1 Like

I started with Zwave dimmer switches and have never had an issue. I have quite a few devices and a couple of extenders..

1 Like

Thank you. The explanation was useful. As i am ONLY adding powered z-wave devices (light switches, UFH controllers) I can ONLY pair them when they are installed in the final location. This was part of the reason for my confusion/frustration. When initially installed they worked fine. Then all of a sudden they all decided to fail / work badly.

Is there a way to manage the routing (correct the silly choices the hub makes? This is my current setup

  1. Hub
  2. Front Hall (0x07)
  3. Living Room Middle (0x06)
  4. Kitchen Floor (0x08)
  5. Future light switch
  6. Future light switch
  7. Location of powered socket / repeater (will this help?)

And the routing table which hubitat has generated.

As you can see for some reason the hub decided to route to the Kitchen Floor via the unit furthest from it!

1 Like

Thank you. I have read through that post, and currently have WiFi on channels 1 & 6, with Zigbee on channel 20.

1 Like

Couple of observations/comments.

  1. The Kitchen Floor is paired S2 Authenticated - is there a reason you want security on this switch? If not, you may consider excluding and re-including unchecking all of the security options.

  2. No way to force a route, but you could consider air gapping 0x08 for about 30 seconds and then running a repair on just it.

One or both, may or may not, help but without trying...

Repeaters will definitely help. You may need more then just one, but they will certainly help. I would also look at your Zwave Topology graphic to understand your routing options. Simply put the more blue each device has the more potential routes a device may have. What you want is to be able to see as much blue on that as possible. It will never be solid blue as battery powered or non repeater devices will show red for other non repeating Battery power devices.

You may want to look at some Gen7 dedicated range extenders like a Ring Gen 2 extender.
The socket will help, but isn't the best. Switches are kind of the same boat. Some of them work well in some cases, but not the best. My best range extender is a Aetec Gen 6 siren in the center of my house

1 Like
  • I agree on dropping S2 from anything you can.
  • The addition of more devices should help. The jump from 1 to 3 is fairly large and could be impeded by furniture, the walls, pipes, etc. You want multiple options for it to choose from when it builds the routes, because you can't reliably predict what is going to get a good signal or not.
  • This may not be possible in your home, but I've had the best results when centrally locating the hub. Think of it like the center of a bush reaching out in all directions. Versus right now, with your hub on one side of the house, it's like the base of a tree trying to reach to all the high branches. Everything has to go up the trunk.

As far as being centrally located, everyone thinks "yeah, but it only has ethernet, so I have to put it next to my router." I had very good results using 2 of these though: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01H74VKZU It transfers ethernet over my house's power circuits. That let me put the Hubitat wherever I wanted.

1 Like

What is with all the hate for S2 security. I get it with S0, but why S2.

You can also look at the Neighbor count in that tool by expanding the little right facing triangle. That will show you it's neighbors the device can see and if they are repeaters as well.

1 Like

No hate, but it is overhead and if it isn't needed by the installation why add it?

1 Like

Nope, Sonoff got you covered:

:smiley:

1 Like

Since 2.2.5, you can use Wifi dongles with C5 and C7 hubs.

1 Like

I've been using one way before 2.2.5 as it was required to get my lock stable to move the hub closer to the lock. Although these aren't really what you are referring to that split the usb power port, these just plug into the ethernet port, and the hubs usb power port is still just used for power only.

https://www.amazon.com/IOGEAR-Ethernet-2-WiFi-Universal-Wireless-GWU637/dp/B018YPWORE/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3K64KPJRT2CB3&dchild=1&keywords=wifi+to+ethernet+adapter&qid=1619197756&sprefix=wifi+to+ether%2Caps%2C215&sr=8-3

Although I would caution anyone using these that after the painful setup process put the power plug for these on a separate controllable plug outside of the hub this is plugged into, as with several hours of inactivity these wifi devices tend to "go to sleep" and can sometimes take about 30 minutes to naturally wake up, making you think your hub is down because the ip address won't load but it's only this device being asleep and not communicating. if you power off the plug that powers these then power it back on wakes up within a couple minutes.

1 Like

Thank you. I have found these the BASICZBR3 is only really works if I blank off the light switch, and the ZBMINI requires a neutral at the switch (which all my existing wiring does not have). I will be using the ZBMINI for newly wired light fittings though.

In this case I would consider to blank the existing Wirsing, basically having a permanent on-state and use some smart buttons or switches. No neutral required and you would have the full functionality, using smart bulbs aditionally. :blush:

@david20, You stated earlier that you are forced to add devices at their final location because that's where you have power. Not so. Many of us have created a simple plug-in wire that allows one to connect a switch or outlet temporarily (use wire ties and be safe about it, of course!). We add the device while standing a short distance from our hub (under 10 feet commonly). Then we unhook from our temporary rig and go mount the device wherever it needs to be. It sometimes takes two-three days for the system to fix its routing to the new location, but I find that this - and dedicated repeaters - helps considerably. I've no idea why, but it does. But again, safety is key here. If used properly, a temporary rig can be used safely and effectively.