Is there an industry standard for ZWave?

The hub’s z-wave radio can adjust frequencies based on which region of the world it’s in, but it can still only use one z-wave frequency at a time.

And it’ll have to match the end devices sold for that market.

But it doesn't go away just because the standards evolve. Z-Wave is backwards and forwards compatible, and many people have older Z-Wave (and Zigbee, though changes have been less dramatic there) devices. Z-Wave 300-series is still pretty common (and I've seen a couple people here with 100-series devices!), and many readily available devices are still probably 500-series. There are some 700-series devices and a growing number of 800-series devices, so this will likely gradually change.

Nut not everyone is going to upgrade all their devices just because they exist, and having a shiny new 800-series controller like a C-8 hub doesn't eliminate their quirks. :smiley:

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Well, by the same token, X10 devices are still available. Brand new. In certain circumstances they're all you need.

What was it (and when) that prompted the development of ZWave?

Look up the history of ZenSys.

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The world is not run just by engineers, thankfully I think. Many of the non-compatible products available in the market were designed by engineers who didn't care to follow the standard specification, but told the marketing people to call them Zigbee anyway. It's not all on the Product Managers at all. Without a viable business model, none of this happens at all. And left to the engineers, that usually doesn't happen.

Neither Z-Wave nor Zigbee has a true "standard", although they have relatively strong specifications. Silicon Labs won't allow manufacturers to purchase Z-Wave silicon without achieving Certification by the Z-Wave Alliance. While this certification process is not an ironclad protection of conformance, it is a pretty good test of interoperability. No such enforcement mechanism exists for Zigbee. We see more variation of interoperability with Zigbee devices than we do with Z-Wave. Products bearing the Z-Wave mark have been certified (else the Z-Wave Alliance would chase them down).

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In America, the Engineering profession died 20 years ago (I understand not all of us see it this way). That was when Product Management changed hands. We live in a "Press every button and see what happens" world now. We think cell phones are computers and FB is the internet. Think: Max Headroom.

:grinning: This is what I'm afraid of.

Hint - They are.

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Better take another look.

Ah, the East Bay, 1999. I lived in Hayward for a while.

"Zensys was founded in 1999 to develop wireless solutions for the emerging home automation and remote control markets."

It "emerged" for 20 years before Zensys noticed. I think it is WiFi that emerged. We stand on the shoulders of WiFi.

I guess you have a different definition of a computer. An abacus is a computer.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUW1wjlKvmY)
Hubs are capable of taking cell phones right out of the home automation business.

:question:

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I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Well they are. Processor/memory/operating system.... Essentially anything that can run a computation is a computer (as @jameslslate pointed out, even an abacus, but that is a bit on the analog side) Even we has humans are to a degree computers.... Now current general definitions though are a box that can run stuff, phones certainly fall into that category.

Cell phones were (still are?) part of the "Turn on the light Alexa" era. They were needed for both inclusion and operation of the device. Now, the hub can take care of both of these functions. The cell phone is optional. It is still needed in cases where the device manufacturer hasn't smelled the coffee. I admit that they may never smell the coffee.

Since the professional lexicographers retired in ~2000 and were not replaced (NYT), our language has become arbitrary. In fact, computer and cell phone are two different words because they are two different things. The lack of ergonomic design in the cell phone, for one, disqualifies it as a serious computing tool, or even as a telephone. It is best as a remote control.

Machines are not smart. The Cloud is a remote server and a security risk. The history of the word app is a good example of how arbitrary our language has become. At the moment the words portal and platform are on the rise. There are many definitions of these words since they are coined because the sound cool. We create a new word when we have a new thing. None of these words describe new things. They are new words for old things.

When I look for technical data, as I do here, I work around these terms, as you might translate a foreign language when you hear it. I try not to contradict them. My cell phone opinion just slipped out.

Not that it matters, but abacuses/abaci are definitely digital :laughing:

Some of the engineers in the crowd might disagree, but I consider this to be a feature (not a bug). JMO.

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In that case it's not even necessarily the manufacturer. Plenty of people still like remote control vs automation (I prefer automation) and honestly a remote still may be needed for certain situations....

It is more of a computer that can access the cell network. They in fact can and do run some serious things. Lets take an arm15 bionic CPU... 64 bit, 15,000,000,000 transistors, up to 3.2ghz in speed. Onboard video... Conversely an intel i7 cpu has only 9,000,000,000 transistors and maxes out at around 3.1ghz. As to comparability they can do the exact same thing and do., I mean the M1/M2 silicon are now being used in laptop and desktops at apple, So I can do very much the same things on a phone than I do a PC... Am I going to hook 20 phones together and create a cray like array? No. Am I going to run diagnostics on computer networks with a phone? Yes, I often do as a network engineer. Am I going to run long equations that chew up power? Unlikely because it's impracticable given the battery. Could I? Probably if I left it plugged in but what's the point. I'm just saying, that they are computers weather you believe it or not.

My own rule of thumb is, never take choice away from the user. Let the user choose either or both. It is the best design practice, even though it is not always implemented.

Yes and no. My ability to build, repair and upgrade my desktop, rather than throw it away, is a big difference. A keyboard that is properly sized for human hands is another. What a farce the cell phone keyboard is. Having to scroll two lines at a time is a productivity failure. There are other differences. The usability of a PC is vastly beyond a cell phone. Now that there is a CPU in every device in your home does not mean they are all now computers, no matter how powerful the CPU is.

Toffler said in 1970, Technological change causes societal change. I had no idea he was talking about our language. I'm not sure he knew either. Now I see gratuitous changes being made to our language. I do know that the words we use influence the way we think. That's why I'm particular about the terms I use. The name of a thing should tell you what the thing is, not what Marketing wants you to think.

I can do that with my phone and have done it many times including to recover data from certain boards within the phone. If you can't do it on your own, plenty of fixit shops can. Also given todays systems... Hardware is pretty much the same in laptops. Non removable memory, everything integrated on one mainboard and soldered including the memory.

I often use full size keyboards with my phone and tablet as well as fordable portables.

Again maybe in terms of electricity usage but in processing power very little. Again see apples M1/M2 processors destroying intel.

External monitor when needed.

Again as a network engineer, I do frequently prefer my phone or a tablet to do diagnostics and processing and even in some cases offload processing because it's much easier than pulling out laptop which I hardly do anymore. I even give presentations on my iphone and just broadcast it to a tv or monitor. Easy peazy... Now not everyone uses them the way I do but that doesn't matter. They're still fully functioning computers and several million times more powerful the early rocket guidance computers or the Univac. Again usage aside, doesn't change what they are.

As a household full of engineers (some of us with much more than 20 years experience), we definitely don't see it that way. Comes across as a cranky old man "get off my lawn" type of comment, really. :man_shrugging: But no offense taken, each to their own!

But there is definitely truth that the job has evolved and changed over time. That I'll agree with.

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