Inexplicable simple automation issue (I think)

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1

I have a group called "group on all night" which contains several devices that I want to (wait for it!) stay on all night, triggered when mode turns to evening and turned off when mode changes to day.

I have a rule built sing the simple automation tool... it's not complex...

Screen Shot 2020-12-12 at 8.50.46 AM
Screen Shot 2020-12-12 at 8.50.46 AM845×589 37.8 KB

Here's the odd part. The members of "group on all night" consists of dimmers and switches. Bt they do not all come on reliably. Here's a snapshot of the group:

Screen Shot 2020-12-12 at 8.50.18 AM
Screen Shot 2020-12-12 at 8.50.18 AM858×610 26.1 KB

I have descriptive logging turned on for all of the devices in the group, and here's what the logs actually show happening (ignore the time stamp... I forced it to evening mode to test):

dev:9152020-12-12 08:45:38.139 am info Bedroom raul was turned on

dev:9142020-12-12 08:45:38.126 am info Bedroom dresser was turned on

dev:9132020-12-12 08:45:38.105 am info Bedroom brad was turned on

dev:13182020-12-12 08:45:38.044 am info Group Hue master bedroom was turned on

dev:12292020-12-12 08:45:37.912 am info group on all night level is 100%

dev:8062020-12-12 08:45:37.874 am info Basement Stairs Side Door was set to 100% with a duration of 1

The bedroom lights all come on, triggered by the Hue group "master bedroom." The side light comes on. But the rest of the lights in the group do not come on.

Here's the REALLY weird thing. If I replicate the logic in RM, everything works exactly as you would expect:

dev:6922020-12-12 09:05:08.927 am infoPorch overhead was turned on [digital]

dev:6942020-12-12 09:05:08.924 am infoFoyer front window was turned on [digital]

dev:8152020-12-12 09:05:08.431 am infoDrawing Room front lamp was turned on [digital]

dev:8342020-12-12 09:05:08.190 am infosunroom table lamp was turned on [digital]

dev:12292020-12-12 09:05:08.178 am infogroup on all night switch was turned on

2

BTW, it's much better to use screenshots for logs, instead of copy paste.

What kind of devices are these in the group? What happens if you turn the group on/off/level directly with the Group activation device?

Odds are high this is a device problem, possibly a mesh issue.

3

I was thinking some sort of mesh issue as well but I can't get it to add up right. Activating the group manually works flawlessly. Activating the devices manually works fine. Activating the group from RM works fine. The devices are hue bulbs, a zigbee outlet, and a couple zwave switches. All work fine independently and manually, and all work with RM, just not the simple automation rules. If it was a mesh issue I would think it would happen under more conditions, or zwave devices would work but zigbee would not, or vice-versa. In any case my RM rule works just fine.

And thank you for the feedback... will use screen shots on the logs next time.

4

Look at the events for the group activation device, Events button on its device page. See if SAR is sending a command to it, and if so, what command. Is the command you send in RM the same command? Simple Automation Rule should be sending a setLevel command to the activation device. Is that the command you tried from it's device page?

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The events tab of the group device page does indeed indicate that the group is activated at the right time. I send two commands in RM, a turn on command and a set dimmer command. I'm not sure if that's exactly the same set of commands that the simple automation rule sends, but should be pretty close.

I'm going to leave it all in RM and see how it goes.

6

SAR only sends setLevel, not on and setLevel. In theory that shouldn't matter, but your devices seem to respond better to getting both commands.

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I think you've nailed it. I went back and modified the RM rule to just send the dimmer command. Same results I got when I tried it with SAR. Only turned on one device, and that one device is a Lutron switch. The others seem to want to be turned on first, and then set. I bet the Lutron behaves differently for some reason. You have solved the mystery for me and I know what is different between RM and SAR. I still don't know why it would make a difference but at least I have an explanation. I think I'll see if I can accomplish the same thing with scenes and bypass the whole problem.

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8

What are the other devices that aren't turned on? Did you try setLevel from the activation device page?

9

No I think that's the difference... those devices don't support dimming. So if SAR is sending a set level but not explicitly turning them on would that explain my confusion?

BTW switched the whole thing over to using a scene and it's working precisely as expected with SAR,

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10

If they don't support dimming, why were you telling SAR to turn on and set level? If you just have it turn them on, that should work. At least one of those devices must be a dimmer.

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11

Yes there were dimmers as well, and the separate bedroom group was all Hue bulbs. That's why I chose Turn on and set level. I think that's where my confusion started, with a mixed group of dimmable and non-dimmable devices.

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12

There is no reason that should not work.

13

I think there was a similar issue someone had a while back. The solution was to build a scene, and use that scene instead of a group. Maybe try that and see if it works for you?

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Yeah tried that a few posts ago. Scenes work fine and I have it all operating as designed. So the discussion has moved from "how do I fix this" to "what am I missing about how this works."

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15

Please post a screenshot of the Group App Status page, Settings . (Gear icon)

There should have been an option when you setup the Group to command mixed devices. If that wasn't set it would explain what you're seeing. Your screenshot of the Group didn't show that setting, but there could be some bug about that setting be available.

16

As I was troubleshooting I deleted and recreated the group a few times but did not save the last iteration since I already had it all working with scenes. I can try recreating it later this weekend if it would be helpful.