Hubitat in Europe (Croatia) - Tips

Why Hubitat Elevation
1

Hi!

I'm new to the home automation world. I am currently in the phase of building a new house and would like to set up all the necessary installations so that I can eventually have a smart home. I've studied various options in all of this and somehow Hubitat seems like a good option for further development and upgrades. I'm a programmer by profession, so it's no stranger to me to look for solutions and read and write codes.

I'm actually here to ask some questions that bother me. Since I am from Europe, more specifically Croatia, I am curious to know if there is anyone here from Croatia or the surrounding area. I am interested in this question because of buying the modules that are needed. Where to buy and more importantly what to buy.

What would you recommend to me that would meet my needs and ideas. How would I know how to prepare in-house installations while under construction.

What interests me is complete automation, maybe not in the first phase, but I would definitely make the preparation. Certainly for starters it would be: lights, shutters, curtains, blinds, heating, door / window sensors, motion sensors, moisture sensors and door locks.

If it were easier to figure out the space I could post pictures of the house plan, so suggest what would not be a bad thing to have without my mind. Also where to place the hub and the rest.

2

I'm in the UK so not ideal but at least our standards and equipment should be the same.

There are so many answers to this but the basics are:

  1. Get deep boxes installed everywhere you can 35MM deep minimum.
  2. For lighting ensure that it is the switch "loop in method" that means take the live and neutral down to the switch then take the switch line and neutral to the light from there.
  3. If you have multiple switch lines and switch locations in a room spread out the light feeds (don't take them all to one box and just strappers to the others) this gives you more options and space.
  4. Wire future power cable and data/security cable to motion sensors positions in each room (I have CAT5 wired back to a location to each motion sensor this is connected to a 12v PSU and at each detector i have a 12v to micro USB converter to connect the motion sensors but if they do a mains powered zigbee one i would be stuffed)
  5. Wire security cable to each door and window to connect cheap read contacts to wire this to same location as 4. (I have cable that goes to each room above the door that connects to a z-wave UBS this has 2 contacts which a cable then goes to the window /door it also has a temperature sensor stuck to the metal blank plate. This is useful but A most motion sensors have temp anyway and B if i was doing it again i would just wire it straight back and use Konnected.)
  6. wire to each window (top) a local power supply then take a triple cable back to a location of your choice (mine are at the light switch). This is for blinds, I have a z-wave controller in the box by the window but i would have prefered zigbee, this gives me local and remote control and no batteries.
  7. For switches check out the Minigrid range it's fantastic stuff that you can mix and match centre off retractive, push to make, latching and double pole switches all on one plate.
  8. Get a opentherm boiler (probably not new to you on the continent) but they are far better for heating if used with a opentherm thermostat like Nest.
  9. Data points in each room the more the better :wink: ( I have 2 in each room TV and wired or wireless point)
  10. coax for each TV (it's still used/ useful)
  11. Data points outside for camaras
  12. I have wired CAT5 to side of door when they eventually do something worth installing that's not only reliant on batteries
  13. Use plastic dry lining boxes where possible to help with radio signal.

may add more, when i remember :laughing:

3 Likes
3

I mostly agree on majority of points above.

With few remarks. 35mm deep electric box is not enough deep. Many accesories (z-wave / zigbee elements mounted in boxes) needs at least 60mm deep boxes. So 60mm is absolute minimum.

"Loop in method" / neutral wire in light switches are absolutly "must have". Most inteligent light switches needs neutral wire.

If you need more than one double switch side by side, then you have problem. Most of inteligent switches are designed to be "solo", not designed to be installed in frames, side by side with next switch.

Unfortunely I'm in such situation. I need to control 4 lights (cables are allready installed / and there are installed two double "dumb" switches side by side) and to install inteligent switches I had to replace standard EU 60mm boxes by standard UK boxes, becouse only one company produces inteligent wall switch that can control four (4x) lights, that hardware is designed for UK. Of course I don't want to mix different switches, so for light switches I'll use everywhere switches from same company in UK boxes.

Do data points everywhere. Literally everywhere. Unfortunetly I skipped some places (for example in place where central heating is installed) and now I have to provide connection to that places anyway.

Use ethernet cables with minimum category 5E, consider category 6, with decent quality. Make TV/radio installation using decent multiswitch, at least two points (for double head sat receiver) for one room. If tv/radio will be installed, use triset-113 or triset profi cables.

2 Likes
4

I don't quite understand this. I had planned to make a box above the switch and then bring everything in that box and connect it. So one box would contain: the main feed, the light feed and the switch feed. From everywhere I thought of three wires. So if I have another switch also the same in that box of his three wires. Is this a bad idea or?

You suggest I go with the cable everywhere? How reliable are the battery sensors and how long does the battery last, do you have any experience?

@abraham

Yes I think I'll definitely go with such a little deeper box.

Where is the best look for equipment in Europe?

5

:face_vomiting: I have seen this before on the continent, don't know why you guys do that it's ugly and messy. We neatly make it off in the back of the switch where it's easy to maintain, test and it's also out of sight.

What do you mean by the main feed AND the light feed? There is only the light feed and the switch feed. Wait I think you mean the main feed from the supply the switched lighting feed and the switch line feed to the switch box. (The junction box method) if that's the case you guys are 40-60 years behind us, no-one does that anymore for multiple reasons. Neatness, issue with extra connections than needed, the fact that it's usually inaccessible for testing (buried), joints in massive junction boxs tend to fail/ cause fires due to them not getting checked.

For the other switches in that room for that one light yes this is correct the 3 core cable you talking is what is called the 2 way circuit containing the "strappers". What I meant above, is if you have a 2nd or 3rd light with there own switch in that room with multiple switch locations then spread out where the switched light feeds come from. The reason for this is the, let's call it master dimmer device for the line are small but not small enough for lots to go in the same box. They also produced a little bit of warmth, due to them being phase dimmers, so you also don't want them together. Last reason is that they are also powered and so help create your mesh, so by not putting them in one place your helping spread and improve your mesh.

Yes due to above.

If you can, why wouldn't you wire it's always better.

They are reliable, just not as reliable as wired and who wants to change batterys when your in the position to not have to. There is another advantage of wired in that you don't have to ensure the IS a wired device near by. You have to ensure you mesh is strong enough to support the battery devices, so in my mined it's plan for wired and if you then have to put a battery devices in your be covered.

I avoid battery devices where possible, I do have a few and they work well because I have enough power devices. The time the battery lasts all depend on the device, some last a year others more others less. It all depends on how often they report, I like quick updates so it kills the batteries.

Where do you get 60mm deep? The deepest boxes we can do is 47mm and they are MORE than deep enough to fit 2 dimmers in a box. 35 is usual enough but if you can fit 47 your be golden. Just don't fit the standard 25 or god forbid 16!!!!
Another thing to add here is try to use fast fix boxes (plastic dry lining boxes) as much as possible. There better than mental for the radio although if you have enough powered devices like me it shouldn't be to much of a issue.

BTW if you hadn't guessed I am speaking from experience as an electrician aswell.

1 Like
6

No a issue if using "dumb" switch with "smart" modules or smart lamps and smart modules.

I'll send some photos.

15777856449754618314773164843270
157778564497546183147731648432701960×4032 1.77 MB

Every one of these switches is dumb but with a smart modules connected. Behind this one there is just one module because....

15777857338166807113939551704969
157778573381668071139395517049691960×4032 1.48 MB

Behind this one is a 2 way with the other and another smart module. There is another one the same behind me. In this room I have 3 switch locations, entrance and each bed side. I have 2 electric blinds and 4 lighting lines. 2 of them are phase dimmed and 2 of them are smart lamps.

60 mm 6 cm DEEP! Really? Is that the norm over there? How deep are your wall's :smile:

My wall

15777856177646276474082674744248
157778561776462764740826747442481960×4032 1.76 MB

Agree this is what I have tried to do.

1 Like
7

Amazon isn't to bad but if your buying in bulk also look at Vesternet they will give you a good discount for large order's. Also look at the Aurora lighting it's all mostly ZigBee 3.0 and seems to be doing well. Stick with ZigBee if you can it's far better than z-wave, there is just some stuff ZigBee doesn't do as well but for that you just go z-wave.

Sunricher stuff is good too, should be easier for you to get and it's directly supported :grinning::+1:

8

The main feed I thought was the power supply from the fuse, and the light feed I meant the cable coming from the light to the switch. I understand what you mean and that you speak from experience. It is best to bring it all to one switch and do a complete single light connection there.

In Croatia, the most commonly found boxes are 45mm deep and 50mm deep. The thickness of the load-bearing walls is 250mm, while the thickness of the partition wall is at least 120mm.

9

What smart module did you use inside the switch?

10

Ok yes it's just called the feed and then the "switched" feed. If you were taking just a switch line to the switch it would be just a switch line.

Yes, safest, most common way nowadays.

I do have a old place but all my walls stud and supporting are only 150-160.

A 47mm single deep box is a pain to get your fingers in and strip the cable sheath, I would think 60 mm be impossible :grinning::rofl:.

11

Fibaro dimmer 2 with a custom driver that allows you to use the 2nd input as a button for other device. 1st input drives the load on/off up/down and double click. Where as the 2nd does press, hold, release, double tap and triple tap.
If there was a ZigBee dimmer that had the 2nd input functions I would have that or (soon to be released) a ZigBee input module to make a dumb switch a button. But the Fibaro's are a great product it's just there not as fast as ZigBee.

1 Like
12

Thanks i will look into them.

13

In Croatia, as far as I have noticed, only Fibaro equipment can be purchased. It can be purchased in several stores.

14

It's good stuff would definitely recommend it BUT it's z-wave. So best bet is to go ZigBee everywhere you can for speed, reliably and security, for everything else go Fibaro.

1 Like
16

First of all happy new year! :tada:

Even I am not from Croatia(ita living in es) this thread is very useful(Thank you to all!) since I am in the same situation of sbGoogle: I am refurbishing a house and after vacations I have to tell to electrician what and where to put cables in order to make my house a bit smarter. I also a newbie since my Hubitat will be delivered this January.
Besides the normal switches and plugs I will mount electric shutters and also I want to install an alarm system.

I have some questions/doubts:

  1. Roller shutter think they are only in Z-Wave, isn’t it? For those one I was thinking of Fibaro V3

  2. Switches and dimmers. For those cases are there any switches which have integrated the zigbee or is it better/easier to mount a normal one and then put the zigbee part behind them into the wall?

  3. If lastest option I was thinking to spread one inner switch for each wall box and not to try to install all inside one box

  4. Are zigbee sensors easier to be detected by Hubitat Or are there any constrains(drivers, compatibilities) like Z-Wave products?

  5. I will use wired windows sensors when possible, otherwise will go with zigbee sensor in case of windows with two doors which have on the top a fix frame glass. I think would be the easiest way.

  6. Alarm system. This topic is still under construction, after many researcher I got to this idea: I will install a proper alarm, maybe a Risco hybrid (cablead and wireless) where, with wire, I will connect the sensors(doors and motion,) the sirens and the control next to the entrance door to arm and disarm the alarm. Then with Konnect I will connect it with Hubitat and use all the other strategies I have in mind. Also I will use an external battery/ups which will supply electricity In case of main switch will be switched off.

Risco is able also to integrate the Domotics with Z-Wave products and has one application for all(alarm and domotic), nevertheless I skept this idea.

For the cameras I am thinking to use(and to wire) a POE but also to cable a normal plug in case I want to use other cameras which need only a power supply.

Any thoughts?

17

There is ZigBee ones (last time I looked about a year ago) but they were stupid expensive for me YMMV. I currently have the aeotec z-wave ones but the Fibaro's shutters are supported from memory, so I would go with them.

Better in my opinion to have a ZigBee part behind, because you can then choose your own switch.

I think I understand this as what I said in previous post.

So yes spread them out where possible.

Best bet is to stick to officially supported kit.

Yes that's a good idea as long as your mesh is strong enough for the battery powered devices. Aurora do ZigBee sockets which should be supported soon once they make it to hubitats office. So will be great for extending your mesh.

Yes I think I would do something similar if doing it again, the Konnected system is a very clever idea.

Sounds good to me.

18

Hi. Here in Italy we have a company named Bticino (acquired by Legrand Group) . It is fully zigbee based (Living now product line) with many components by netamo. It is the most advanced I've seen. They also have led wall switch you can change the icon of. I do'nt know if they are compatible with Hubitat. it would be very nice to know about...

19

I have a summer home in Croatia. What part?

20

Norris, thank you for your feedback!

Aurora sockets are a very good idea, it’s a pity they only make with UK plugs.

I checked the official list of compatible devices but, for Europe users, is not the best since many of them are only sold in USA.

Roberto, would be nice if bTicino devices can be integrated into Hubitat. Did you give a try?

21

No, I didn't. I've an older product line. But looking at the videos and speaking with Ha installer it seems quite unique.