""hub that has not come back after power outage""...we hear it time and time again!

[velvetfoot]

I think this is where Long Range Z-Wave might provide a little more reliability, where all devices talk direct to the hub.

I recall having problems with my normally reliable Hue motion sensors after an extended outage this winter. This was the one where my TalentCell battery backup for the hub failed and the hub lost power, ungracefully, lol. It took a while to get them back on line. All my zigbee devices pair direct to the hub since I don't have any powered Zigbee devices. But Z-Wave LR is designed for direct communication to the hub, so maybe it'll be more reliable.

[dJOS]

@velvetfoot

I think this is where Long Range Z-Wave might provide a little more reliability, where all devices talk direct to the hub

Better antennas can make a huge difference too.

I’m using high quality 5 dBi antennas on my C8p and most devices can connect directly to the hub without LR.

Iirc, it was @lewis.heidrick that came up with the original mod for the c7. I transferred the antennas to my c8p and they work great.

Edit: I found the link to what I used:

External Antenna

Folks, after a thorough search, I found that Element 14 also stock the Rubber Duck Antennas Lewis uses: 900MHz 5 dBi Rubber Duck Antenna HG905RD-RSP https://au.element14.com/l-com/hg903rd-rsp/antenna-rubber-duck-gsm-900mhz/dp/1900215 2.4GHz 5.5 dBi Rubber Duck Antenna HG2405RD-RSP https://au.element14.com/l-com/hg2405rd-rsp/antenna-wlan-2-4-2-5ghz-50-ohm/dp/1862233 Looking at the datasheet for the 900Mhz antenna shows that it will work from 860 Mhz to 960 Mhz which easily covers all intern…

[velvetfoot]

@dJOS

I’m using high quality 5 dBi antennas on my C8p and most devices can connect directly to the hub with LR.

You mean, "without", I believe.

[dJOS]

Yep, sorry, typo on my part.

[user2164]

How about a small UPS (maybe 450VA) and a power monitor device like the ZAC38? Plug the ZAC38 into a non-backed-up UPS outlet. Plug the HE into a backed-up UPS outlet. Set up a rule that triggers when the ZAC38 switches power source (mains <-> battery). When it switches to battery, set a timer to ignore short duration power failures or generator start-up delay. If the timer expires before the ZAC38 switches back to mains, trigger a HE shutdown. Seems like it would be pretty bulletproof.

I don't understand why someone won't spend $60 for a UPS. If for no other reason, just to keep short duration power failures from causing a reboot.

If a controlled shutdown is attempted, can non-responsive devices, rules waiting on devices or timers, etc. cause restart failures?

[Rxich]

This Pi Power works excellent, I have several. And now they take 2x 21700 cells, which are about 5000mAh each. Enough to run the hub for likely 24hrs+
And I also have 1 of @dJOS UPS creations, which is excellent

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805914089508.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.22.295c1802vuVLl3&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Edit-good 21700 cells would cost about 16-25 USD per pair

[velvetfoot]

@Rxich

Enough to run the hub for likely 24hrs+

I would test once a year anyway to see if there's been any degradation.

[PunchCardPgmr]

@JohnRob

No supercap etc could maintain the energy needed to hold the Hub up for a internally controlled shutdown.

I think if the goal is to "tidy up" or otherwise "put to a safe rest state", things that could corrupt to the point of disrepair...I'm gonna suggest something COULD keep enough in the box alive to do that....even if it meant having a replaceable battery to augment, and maybe even a secondary storage chip?

So maybe the box wouldn't do EVERYTHING it might normally do in a shutdown. And maybe once it came back up when power is restored it might take a little longer for it to "regroup itself"

...but at least preserve the ability for the box itself to come back WITHOUT any extra human effort no matter the size and complexity of your install/mesh.

EDIT ADD: I'm just going to add that not everyone runs their HEs in places that look like a server room. Yet still, the one I am most egregious with has a UPS on it...but I know that those conditions are bad for the battery in that UPS. Amazingly the C-5 is like a TANK, even under adverse conditions. I'm just sayin... I don't care if that HE goes down with a power outage... I DO care if it gets corrupted somehow and I have one more problem added to the stack of headaches to recover from after a power outage.

[Rxich]

Yes, you are correct, some of these mini-ups keep the lithium cells topped up to 4.2 volts x 24/7, which is bad for longevity. So your tip, to check cells yearly, is a good idea.
IIRC my very first el cheapo 18650 battery backup (DIY- Battery Backup Hubitat- under TEN bucks-NO soldering) killed a Panasonic 18650 in about 2 years by charging it to death.

[bravenel]

@PunchCardPgmr

It seems there are at least three means of storing just enough power within a "next generation HE" box that wouldn't take that much real estate.

@PunchCardPgmr

I'm gonna suggest something COULD keep enough in the box alive to do that....even if it meant having a replaceable battery to augment, and maybe even a secondary storage chip?

So that there are no mistaken expectations, what is being suggested here is not going to happen. At the cost points where the hub has sustainable economics allowing it to be marketed, adding batteries, additional storage chips, etc, is simply not economically possible. Comparing the hub to electronic devices with costs an order of magnitude higher is not a winning argument. These are just hard facts about costs.

@PunchCardPgmr

OK, we all know we're suppose to have HE boxes plugged in to a UPS of some sort.

Not necessarily. As with all electronics, changes in the source power supply to the hub can have unpredictable outcomes. If the electric utility delivers low voltage to the house, even for only an instant, there is no telling what may be damaged by it, where no 'gentle power down' is going to save it. These sorts of problems are much more difficult to successfully be solved than is being considered in these posts. I like that the forum admits to all sorts of ideas, but not all of them actually have any merit. Threads like this one are effectively presenting misinformation, and as such, it will be closed now.