Looking at moving from C5 to C7 and while trying to plan it all out a question came to mind. Is there any advantage to creating "Hu Mesh" prior to moving devices? Just trying to cover all the bases before starting and figured I'd ask.
I have both C5 and C7 interfaced with HU Mesh! As you might have been reading, there is some interoperability of the C7 and select Z-Wave devices that are better suited to the C5's 500 radio than on the C7.
As much as I would like to have the C7 contain all the devices, apps, etc, it looks like this isn't possible with some legacy devices and S0 security on new devices.
I have started what I think will be a slow transition from a C-4 to a C-7. The reason I expect it to be slow is I have several devices that are difficult to access and I would like to wait before transitioning them. So I expect to be running both hubs for some time - likely several months.
What I have done so far (and I make no claim that this is the "right" way to do it):
I got my C-7 working. This C-7 was new but had been sitting on a shelf since late summer while I waited to see the resolution of the Z-Wave issues. Getting it working required a weekend working with Bobby to get the platform updated, the diagnostic tool updated, and the Z-Wave firmware updated.
I let the C-7 run a couple of days and then I updated the C-4 to the latest version as well.
I took backups of both (even though there was really nothing on the C-7).
I tried out moving one Zigbee device, a motion sensor in my office, to the C-7 and then linking the two hubs with Hub Mesh to see how that all works.
I decided that for the long run, I will want most of the automation routines to run on the C-7. Not wanting to have to re-enter them all, I decided to take a shot at restoring my backup from the C-4 to the C-7. What the heck, I only had one device on the C-7, how bad could it be?
Since I was not ready to transition the automation routines yet, when the C-7 came back up after loading the backup, I went into location and corrected the name back to what I had assigned it (something with a 7 in it) since the backup had put the name from the C-4 on it (because it was in the backup). Then I went into the apps page and disabled all the apps by clicking the little box.
I also disabled the Z-Wave radio. I'm not ready to move Z-Wave devices yet. I am focusing on moving most of the Zigbee devices because I have had the Zigbee network go offline a couple of times and Bobby suspects it may be a hardware problem - thus my motivation to begin using the C-7.
So I have all the apps on both hubs and they are all disabled on the C-7. I have all the device entries on both hubs but no Z-Wave devices are joined to the C-7 and the Z-Wave network if off for the time being.
I've moved 5 zigbee devices over this afternoon and I have found what seems to be a pretty good procedure. Let me know if I have made it too complicated (I've been known to do that).
- I choose a device to migrate to the C-7 hub.
- On the C-4 hub I rename the device, appending -OLD to the end of the name.
- On the C-7 hub I initiate the Zigbee Pairing and click or push buttons on the end device to join.
- When the device is recognized it will automatically fill-in the name as the device is known and in the database.
- At this point I go into the hub mesh menu on the C-7 and share the local device.
- Then I go to the hub mesh menu on the C-4 and link to the device that I just shared on the C-7. This creates a device entry in the device list on the C-4 for the device on the C-7.
- Next I look at the original device entry on the C-4 to see what apps were using the device and I go into each of those apps and select the "new" device which will have "on {the name of my C-7 hub}" appended to the name, if necessary (depending on how the app works) I also remove the "old" device with the "-OLD" appended to the name.
- Once I have switched the devices in all the apps that the device was on, I can delete the "OLD" device.
It's actually not as cumbersome as it might seem in writing. I can do it pretty quickly and by saving the old device until I am ready to remove it, I reduce the risk of losing some key piece of configuration information.
As I do more, I will try to remember to come back to this thread and provide updates.
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Yeah, I've documented as much as I can and just wanted to see if having the mesh would help or hinder. I will most likely move Zigbee first as well. Have about 26 of each so it's a toss-up. Mostly concerned about keeping all my rules intact. Thanks for the input.
I think (hope) that by doing the backup on the old (C-4) early on and loading that on the new (C-7) hub, I won't screw up the copies of the rules on the new (C-7) hub with the name changes (appending -OLD) to the devices on the old hub (C-4). When it comes time to transition the app operations to the new (C-7) the names that are already in the (C-7) should be correct when I turn off the sharing on those devices.
I haven't experimented with that yet. I think that will be my next (baby) step will be to transition a very simple rule from the C-4 to the C-7 and see how that works.
Yeah, probably my biggest concern, having to make all new rules.
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This has worked well, so far. I have moved all but two of my Zigbee devices (around 35) from the C-4 to the C-7. Most of the automations are still running on the C-4 with the C-7 connected devices linked to the C-4. A few of the automations were quite simple and compact so I enabled those on the C-7 (and disabled them on the C-4). Those turn on lights or fans so I shared those lights or fans from the C-4 to the C-7.
I am quite impressed with how well the Hub Mesh works and how easy it is to configure it. It looks to me like a good bit of thought went into the steps needed to configure the hubs and the screen movements are tailored to what you will likely need . . . very cool.
No conflicts with rules on both? Did you import a backup from your C5 to C7 then fix the devices and rules as you moved them.
I backed up the C-4 and restored that backup to the C-7. I corrected the Location Name on the Location tab, I disabled all the apps on the C-7 by clicking the little box to the left of the app name (the optional box that you have to turn on by clicking the X at the upper right), I also disabled the Z-Wave radio since I wanted to work on migrating the Zigbee devices first.
Based on what Bruce had mentioned, the devices don't do anything until you pair something up - the entries just sit there,
To move the Zigbee devices:
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First I renamed the device on the C-4 hub by appending "-OLD" to the name (it turns out I didn't need to do this but it did make it easier to find these in the list of devices),
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Next I reset the device (the Join and Reset Instructions were a huge help - Join and Reset Instructions - Hubitat Documentation),
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then I started the Zigbee Pairing on the C-7,
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then I executed the device join procedure (on most of them this is just the reset procedure so it's all one step).
The devices are recognized because of loading the backup so I didn't need to do any device configuration.
For most of the devices, after joining them to the C-7, I shared them in Hub Mesh, then went to the Hub Mesh page on the C-4 and Linked to remote device. That creates a new device entry that has "on {name of the C-7 hub}" appended to it (this is why it's not critical to rename the old device - I renamed them anyway).
Still working on the C-4 hub:
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I go to the device entry for the old device (since I renamed it, I can just search for OLD),
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go to the bottom of the page to the "In Use By" section and click on each of the Apps where the device was used,
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edit the app to de-select the "-OLD" device entry and select the "On {name of the C-7 hub}" device entry.
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Save the App.
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Fix anything else (so far this has only been dashboards - after changing the device entry in the Dashboard App, you have to edit the dashboard itself to change the device referenced by the tile).
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Once you do this with all the Apps where the device was used, there will be no more Apps listed under "In Use By", at that point I deleted the "-OLD" device entry.
Then test the App to make sure it is working correctly.
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I am in the process of adding a new C7 to replace my C5. I have been reading this thread with interest. I am actually now thinking of adding the C7 separately for now and moving my z-wave devices (only about 7) to take advantage of the new chip. Then if I read this correctly I can turn on Hub Mesh and mirror those devices to my C5 and use them as if they are attached directly to that Hub?
That is correct
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Just be aware that Z-Wave pairing to a C-7 can be painful. It’s much better than it was at introduction, but there can still be some bumps in the road. Once paired, and after “ghost nodes “ from the pairing process have been removed, it’s fine.
A little more information on my setup. I have a large z-wave network running on Homeseer. Have been slowly migrating to Hubitat for some time.
I am focused on my Kwikset 910 door locks right now - working horribly under Homeseer.
So I decided to move two of those over with some repeaters to see how they performed on the C5. A little better, plus I installed the reliable lock app that at least lets me know when the locks haven't responded.
I was thinking of moving these over to the C7 to see how things go. It can't be any worse than what I am dealing with now or on Homeseer. If better, great, if not - nothing lost.
So perhaps a fools errand!
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