HSM Feature Request // Turn Sensor-Triggered-Something-Off after X period of time

Configured HSM Custom alarm,
triggered by Smartthings Multipurpose V5 (vibration),
message sent (thank you erktrek)
light is turned ON

BUT...I'm not seeing where I can set a duration for the ON state of the light.

I'm sure I can dig into Rule Machine and make this happen. Just wondering if there is something I am missing in the standard HSM setup. Seems like turning off whatever was turned on by an alarm should have an unattended way to turn it off after some period of quiescence.

I'm sure I'm going to hear about this if I've overlooked the option (or built-in HSM way to accomplish this). If not, speak up if you agree it needs to be there and somebody will hopefully move this to the Wish List. Thanks in advance.

One way would be to put a delay action, then have the Off action after that. At least in normal Rules. I do not use HSM.

Thanks for that.

This may raise the question of how far one can, or should, expect HSM to go towards handling events.

In the mean time, I think you'd have to create a virtual switch and have HSM turn that on then have a RM rule or Simple Lighting rule setup to turn on the lights when that virtual switch is turned on and of after so much time, you'd probably either want to turn the virtual off at the same time or in the virtual switches preferences set it to auto turn off after a few seconds.

1 Like

Bingo, thanks!

Played around with this a bit and your comment of "In the mean time" is appropriate.

The layering/complexity introduced to have this "timer option" in HSM is more than what one should have to build. Granted it's doable as described but I'd hate to propagate this kind of virtual device layering too often within HSM for such capability.

We are talking "HSM". It's basic Security System functionality for triggered alarm responses to be self healing/reset after x-time assuming sensor quiescence. Not looking to replicate a certified Security System here but this functionality ought to be on the menu in the configuration of an HSM environment ...without too much layered customization.

Granted the beauty of Hubitat is that there are flexible options to solve many objectives. Just have to revisit the question of how much new adopters should be expected to "make stuff themselves" vs putting the most logical bells & whistles right there ready for configuration.

Help me put this in the Wish List if there is agreement.

Does this thread need to be moved to get that functionality "in the queue".

I'd suggest adding the request to the Feature Requests catagory

Moved to Feature Requests after last night's Hubitat Live where Bruce @bravenel talked about HSM.

There was a point in his presentation where it would have been fitting to hear..."and you can also configure this to revert to the pre-alarmed state automatically after X amount of time instead of having to go in and cancel the alarm". I.E. for those pesky sirens, or in my case, lighting that was triggered ON to thwart intrusion.... which I am happy to have automatically revert to OFF after 15 minutes.

This can be done in Rule Machine based on the trigger of the alert in HSM. However, that will not clear the Alert. Once alerted, the only way to clear the alert is to clear the alert. And any switches that you turn on via the Alert, in the HSM config, will revert to their pre-alert status once the alert is cleared. So, if your "sensor" has the switch capability, that functionality already exists in Hubitat.

Just use RM, as follows:

2 Likes

I never expressed thanks for this as I somehow missed it. So Thanks!

But I'll say that I recently found myself thinking again that it was just short of irresponsible to not have an option for an alarm self reset, quieting triggered sirens and extinguishing triggered lights RIGHT in HSM.

This is a fundamental part of any alarm system meant to monitor a state or condition, raise an alarm, and optionally self heal to reset and minimize nuisance to you the owner and to neighbors within earshot or eyeshot.

HSM isn't an alarm system per se...but it has similar potential for nusanse when one is away; and thus it shouldn't be without the described feature as HSM was presumably written for quick implimentation by those not knowing, or wanting, to layer RM rules for a totally appropriate solution.

I don't care how connected this system is to the owner's phone whereby the alarm state could be managed. Stuff happens and circumstances occur to preclude this.

As an aside...
It would be interesting to do a poll to see how many in the HE Community are at a point in robust implementations where they'd feel totally comfortable leaving their HE monitored & controlled home or facility for a month without any local intervention/oversight. That should be the fearless goal ...and more when we put HEs on the moon😜 !

Mars more like! :rocket:

Coming back to this topic under the presumption that HSM was intended to be quick-start-easy-button-functional and wishing for more system control of alarm responses/durations. In other words, something to allow one to configure unattended (not
-around-to-manage) home safety/security monitoring.

Setting up an outdoor sensor that, when triggered, should notify me and then flash a light or plug just long enough to let a perimeter intruder to know their presence is noted...

Would liked options such as:

Flash = x seconds ON, y seconds OFF (w/ defaults)

Flash for = x times
or
Flash for = x minutes
or
Flash until = HSM alarm disabled/canceled


A somewhat similar construct could be used for siren and in many ways is MORE critical given the nuisance to the neighbors.

Appreciate any likes that support this. Rule Machine experts who are apt to suggest a simple rule solution please understand that this post is made under the assumption that HSM was intended to be a "One Stop Shop" for some level of customer implementation.

HSM Automatically Controlling (or Turning Off) an alarm responce is as basic a requirement as turning it on in the first place.

To HSM or not to HSM, that is the question. It shouldn't just be "a training ground" if it is intended to satisfy all basic HSM functions.

--------------JUST WANTED TO ADD----------------

I just used Simple Automation Rules to set up a "toggling" of that light upon triggering of the subject motion sensor. This was easy and worked exactly the way I needed (light duration-wise). :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

This is besides my point above wherein I am wishing to "HSM-onitor" a device and have certain reactions to it's state(s) be configurable for a certain duration (without creating ancillary, and external to HSM, rules to get the integrated actions) :face_with_monocle:

Start Rehash.

Find myself coming back to this HSM issue this week after setting up a new internal motion sensor that -
a) while home AND in NIGHT mode I want triggering to turn on a light
and
b) while in AWAY mode I want HSM to turn on the same light but also send a notification.

Simple enough, but you know...every time I set something up like this in HSM I find myself thinkin - "I sure wish there was an option allowing self clear/self reset like a Home Security Monitoring system does". I really don't want that xyz on forever after the trigger.

It isn't always the case that you are available or networked to "clear" an alarmed condition, let's not even call this an "alarm". Just call it "going back to a pre-triggered state".

Sure, what I want to do is attainable in RM...but HSM looks to be designed to allow an Easy Button path to setting up some monitoring for new folks coming to HE. You really shouldn't present that without a means to self heal/self clear/self reset ....or cease a resulting action after a prescribed amount of time.

In some municipalities there are ordinances that apply here; let's say instead of a light I am actually tripping an ear piercing audible alarm. In some places that is considered a nuisance if it doesn't stop after some reasonable duration and/or quiescence in the sensor that triggered everything in the first place.

I may be slow to get there but I'm heading down the path a lot of folks go where they leave the hand holding environment of HSM and go roll-their-own in RM. I'm in that messy stage where some is in HSM and some isn't. I still turn to HSM first because, afterall, ...there is purpose-built collective thought and design going into that, right.

Having to stray from it is a shame because what I am needing to do is not a novel concept in Home Security Monitoring, it shouldn't require everyone new to HE to roll-their-own solution in RM.

End Rehash.

P.S. Spare me the "HE is not a surrogate for a Home Security System" line. I get that, and have that too. But...we ALL have configurations where the results of certain triggers are not desired to continue unceasingly until human intervention. HSM tees up human intervention as a presumption...and I'm arguing that it shouldn't unilaterally. Yeah, yeah, "go use RM then". I hear yah.

There is. It's called Rule Machine which can have a trigger based on your HSM going to an alarm state and then after a time you can define an action to cancel the alerts, reset the armed state etc. I use this to reset any HSM alarm after 1 minute of siren wailing and lights at red (intrusion) or blue (water leak). Don't tell the burglars :smile: It's simple to set up and is documented elsewhere in the forum (I know because I wrote it up ages ago) :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Another option is to send yourself a notification when HSM goes off and include a link you can click to cancel the alerts manually as an override. This can be done using Pushover, also documented elsewhere on the forum.

Appreciate you want a one stop shop within HSM but Rome wasn't built in a day :smile: and the solutions above are documented and relatively easy to set up and provide a good solution.

Yeah, I hear yah, but sorry, it is the answer... :smile:

Nah, that's just a way around what SHOULD be in HSM from Day #1.
And your method just proves my point, it is necessary for the 60% of the rest of folks that pick up an HE and expect this kinda stuff to be in place w/o handicrafting.

But it is Thanksgiving, and I am thankful for HE as a HA alternative to the rest of the stuff out there.

Not really. How far should any app go? Eventually HSM would have feature creep that would absolutely overlap with the other tools available. I think they are being quite smart in keeping the use cases relatively simple with the core apps and then allowing extension using RM, which after all isn't rocket science to set up as explained above.

In case it helps, here's my rule to auto reset HSM after 60 seconds (the guts of this is just 2 triggers and 4 or 5 actions only). The lighting actions are to reset the lights from alarm mode red/blue back to whatever the current circadian settings are and the notification is just to let me know what's going on. So you can disregard those parts.

Hope it helps.

Happy holidays!
Cheers.

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