How is Hubitat planning to stay relevant long term?

[neonturbo]

@dJOS

but when I saw the new visual automation system in the Homey Pro, it did set me thinking

I don't think it is worth switching hubs over it. I actually prefer Hubitat's method, for the most part. I do think there could/should be some tweaks, but it is relatively fine at this point.

@rlithgow1

The average user that currently just wants to control a few lights (these are the same as people who use google or echo as their main hubs) are not going to shell out $400 for a hub. Hell, even people here don't wanna shell out for a c8.

I see this all the time on Reddit and elsewhere. "I want to control XYZ devices, and tie them all together but I won't even in the slightest consider a hub, don't even try to sell me on one". I think there is some weird misconception about what a hub does, and why you would want such a thing.

@rlithgow1

I think what the c8 cost is, is worth it

@Stephan.J

The reality is that even some fairly simple home automation requires the user to understand and create some fairly complex logic, The necessity to understand and create this logic is independent of the user interface.

I think people are adverse to this, for a variety of reasons. I find that I never have enough time to sit and concentrate on stuff I want to anymore. This applies even to Hubitat sometimes. My job, fixing stuff around the house, and just life in general take a lot of my brainpower anymore. I get tiny bursts of time during my working hours, and I feel like (mentally) that just isn't enough to plow into something like Home Assistant, learning how to code Groovy, working on that Arduino kit I bought a year ago, and so on. As I get older, I just want to plug something in and it works rather than screwing around with stuff. I have about a 20 minute threshold where I need to be able to finish something, or it just sits not started or incomplete.

@ACKmySYN

Lots of the Homey stuff looks great, but the price and lack of device compatibility is the turn off.

For that price over the years I bought a C4, a C7, and a C8.

This is a great and I think overlooked point. You buy that Homey, and you want to upgrade in 2-3 years when Matter Pro (or whatever the next "thing" is) and you have to purchase another expensive hub. Isn't buying 3 Hubitat with the latest in technology in that same timeframe, a better use of my money?

@waffles

This kind of attitude towards comments you don't agree with has been turning me off for quite some time now.

I think you are reading something into that statement that isn't there. No offense to Bruce, but he is very matter-of-fact about what he says (writes) and people misinterpret that as rudeness. That probably is the engineer in him. I don't think he means any malice or disrespect in what he says. The more I have watched him on this forum, and especially hearing him on the live chats, the more I get what he is saying and where he comes from.

@rlithgow1

I'd like to see it in the news more. It's a fabulous product that it seems more mainstream publications ignore

It is amazing when people are recommending hubs on other forums that Hubitat gets a "I never heard of that one" reaction more than I think it should. I have been speaking about Hubitat for years now on various forums, and people are oblivious to its existence. To quote a Youtuber, "Home Assistant, Home Assistant, Home Assistant" is the mantra on many sites from Reddit to Youtube, and even here to some extent. The last couple months has added Homey to the chant.

I am not sure what it takes to break through, or if Hubitat even has the crew to handle an influx of users. It is an interesting quandary, when does too many users become a bad thing?

[dJOS]

@rlithgow1

I'd like to see it in the news more. It's a fabulous product that it seems more mainstream publications ignore

Same here, I don’t get why it isn’t more popular on the smart home channels. Hubitat is easily the best all round home automation system on the market IMO.

[dJOS]

@bravenel

We've had a lot going on recently getting Matter working, and aren't done with that.

massive kudos for this, I think it was the right move. I haven’t upgraded my C8 yet as 2.3.x was released the day I went in vacation with the family.

But I’ll be having a play as soon as I get home.

@bravenel

As to anything about road map, long term strategy, etc. you must know by now that we just don't talk about that stuff publicly.

I definitely understand this - most companies don’t publish a public road map. Many companies do publish a high level road map for their customers. Perhaps this is something Hubitat could consider for verified hub owners?

[dJOS]

@neonturbo

I don't think it is worth switching hubs over it.

I actually prefer Hubitat's method, for the most part. I do think there could/should be some tweaks, but it is relatively fine at this point.

I’m quite a visual person, so I do find this sort of thing helpful when I’m thinking about how automations will interact. I’ve definitely got myself in a logical pickle on many occasions because of unforeseen interactions.

It’s not a show stopper for me tho.

[bravenel]

@dJOS

I only brought up RM in my what if I croaked scenario because that is where 95% of my automations run from.

Well, can't really have it both ways, right? Some guys come up with amazing and complex systems for home automation, and if they left the planet, there is no way anyone left behind could possibly figure it all out. On the other hand, you can't really get the nice automations you want without using RM or Room Lights, and other apps that aren't really intended for beginners.

@neonturbo

"I want to control XYZ devices, and tie them all together but I won't even in the slightest consider a hub, don't even try to sell me on one".

And have it all be completely configurable by my wife... Right.

[dJOS]

@neonturbo

To quote a Youtuber, "Home Assistant, Home Assistant, Home Assistant" is the mantra on many sites from Reddit to Youtube,

Stockholm syndrome is alive and well.

[bravenel]

@dJOS

Many companies do publish a high level road map for their customers. Perhaps this is something Hubitat could consider for verified hub owners?

No way. Do you have any idea what happens when you talk about the future as a serious matter in public? There's no win there for anyone.

[dJOS]

@bravenel

And have it all be completely configurable by my wife... Right.

Hehe, reminds me of when I worked for IBM, we used to joke that to customers IBM stood for International Band of Magicians, but we thought it stood for I’ve Been Mugged when they wanted the impossible.

[dJOS]

Fair enough. I do understand the risks.

[jtmpush18]

To be serious for just a few minutes....

Although I personally feel that Hubitat is far superior to the Homey (I investigated it thoroughly a few short years ago), I am very enticed by the "glitz and glamor" that Homey represents.
It really looks good, and draws people in. The extra costs are not a "deal breaker" for many.

OK - so that gives Hubitat a look at what reviewers (and influencers) really like.
Sometimes, there is a lot to be learned from competitors.

So far, Hubitat has stayed ahead of the pack by delivering a high quality product, that is dependable and reliable. Perhaps "sexy" is next.

The best of the Holiday Season to everyone!

[neonturbo]

@jtmpush18

OK - so that gives Hubitat a look at what reviewers (and influencers) really like.
Sometimes, there is a lot to be learned from competitors.

I would be shocked if the developers don't have multiple hubs (edit: from other manufacturers) in their homes. That would be an interesting question to pose to them, if they are willing to share that information of what they have tried. Of course that might open them up to lawsuits regarding copying intellectual property, so they probably won't share the details.

[dJOS]

@neonturbo

lawsuits regarding copying

There is no copying, only inspiration.

[tray_e]

I think the issue is that everyone wants something different. In order to make it "easy" for the new user, the dev team would have to think of every possible permutation for every device out there and make it available so anyone could do it. I spent years in the navy. But, it only took a few months to learn there is absolutely no way to sailor proof anything. Similarly, there is no way that these hubs that proclaim ease of use can provide the level of freedom that we have become accustomed to with the slightly more technical platforms. I gladly take the learning curve in light of the added ability to control just about anything the way I want to. With those cookie cutter devices, they maintain their reliability by restricting what you can do. I doubt that the vast majority of those in the forum here would sit still for most of those restrictions.

As to what HE could do? Maybe there is room for a hybrid model of hub Admin. Have a pro mode that would be similar or the same to what we have now. Then also, a beginner or safe mode that locks down to built in drivers and simple apps, maybe some in the Package Manager. Maybe unlocking that Pro mode would have a two or three click confirmation that it is intended for those who are already familiar home automation? I dunno if that is even possible. But, there is a thought.

[neonturbo]

@tray_e

Have a pro mode that would be similar or the same to what we have now. Then also, a beginner or safe mode

Hubitat sorta has done that, to some extent. This hub is not even the same hub I purchased back in early 2019 when the C5 had just come out. heck, there wasn't even a rudimentary phone app up to that point.

They have done the following in the past couple years...

• There is an onboarding tool (Getting Started) for blank (new) hubs where it gives a brief tutorial.
• They hide the Developer Tools section by default.
• They added Lights to the app for quick control instead of dashboards.
• Basic rules were added.
• Add a device walks you through the steps instead of being confronted with just Add Zigbee and Add Z-wave.
• There have been too many UI tweaks to even think about to try and make things more clear and easy.

Of course, things could go further, and maybe they do need to hide more stuff for beginners? But at what point do people just click and say "yea-yea, show me the good stuff" and bypass that anyway? It usually is where companies hide too much stuff or make it tempting to break the rules, so to speak.

[ronv42]

Love this thread and the back and forth. I for one trying to read what is going on in the industry and then all of a sudden there is a major defection by a Automator on YouTube causing them to re-look at hubs because the SmartThings platform says one thing and can't deliver on it.

Folks you have to be very agile in this space with things coming out and changing all the time. Just ask the guy that run "Automate Your Life" on YouTube. All the things promised and what has not been delivered. Even at work we no longer do roadmaps we look at possible outcomes and run experiments to determine what works and what doesn't in short duration sprints. Yes it means a bit more technical debt but in the long term you have a more salable product.

I say Hubitat keeping its technology as open as they do is a big win for the community where others have closed off development and hidden from their community. I am looking forward to 2024 and where things will be going with Hubitat vs. the competition.

[sburke781]

@ronv42

there is a major defection by a Automator on YouTube causing them to re-look at hubs because the SmartThings platform says one thing and can't deliver on it.

I literally watched this about an hour or two ago. Interesting video... Will be interested to see the follow up videos.

Why I'm Ditching Samsung SmartThings (And Redoing My Smart Home)

[sburke781]

I also re-watched the Beginner's Guide for Getting Started video, not that I needed to, was just curious given this conversation about getting beginners onto the platform... Seems pretty simple to me...

Beginner's Guide to switching to the Hubitat Elevation home automation hub

[dJOS]

I would watch that too. The only how to video I’ve watched recently, was the C8 migration video.

[net.sheriff]

@bravenel

We are always looking at ways to improve Hubitat Elevation.

It can even come via 3rd party apps as well.

For example a friend had a dogs breakfast of mishmash smart devices and basically a mess. Because of the HD+ app I suggested a HE and I could help them set it up.

Now 90%+ of the mishmash of devices have been able to be connected to the HE or flashed with Tasmota/OpenBeken or swapped for Zigbee (the other 10% running on Tuya Cloud Driver) and all on a Lenovo Tab P11 with the HD+ app and google Home. Overall they are pretty happy with it.

I would not have bothered tackling their setup without the HD+ app.

[rsjaffe]

I think the “guts” of HE. Are full-featured enough to appeal to a broad range of users. It is the UX that is the limiting factor. Staff have already made great strides in improving the UX, such as implementing Basic Rules and improving the RM experience. I’d like to see continued work on both BR and RM that make their use easier—not by dumbing them down but by making the interface more intuitive: the BR interface more intuitive to the naive user and RM more intuitive to person wielding a programmer’s viewpoint.

That alone should help broaden the audience.