How does Hubitat Safety Monitor handle a lost connection to critical device while armed?

I think the gap is there because of this whole problem we're discussing. And I also think the gap will stay there because the prices are just to high to make it work. And last thing: maybe there is just little of a market in that gap.

I currently rent (hence the reason for me wanting a wireless type system I don't have to install, and that I can take with me). If I was an owner, hard-wired would be an great solution.

Again, I bought HE to do home automation with only a small focus on the security side, but now that I am digging more into it (mother-in-law wants something now too) I am seeing that the options that pretend to be "affordable security systems" are far from it.

But then you can easily use my rule. Just make shure you house is more difficult / more annoying to burglars to break in to. And for most mother-in-law's or spouses is any system you install perfect as long as they hear a bell ringing when you accidentally open a door when it's armed.

Umm... the gap is there because of the whole problem we're discussing? Please do explain because I don't understand.

Price is subjective to the buyer and their expectations of quality and reliability.

The problem we're discussing being their are no affordable wireless devices with a heartbeat or something like that on the market. That's one reason the gap is there.
Price is subjective to customers. Though we have established that the professional security systems are "to expensive" and the cheaper ones aren't reliable enough. So as long as the consumer security systems are not cheaper then professional systems with somewhat of the same specs as the professional systems there will be that gap.

There are affordable wireless sensors with heartbeat. No gap that I see.

As long as cheap people exist so will cheap products. Can't help that.

"We" have not "established" anything about things being expensive you have simply said they were. You first must define "too expensive" before it is a relative statement to base anything on.

Can you share some links? What systems do they work with (Wink, SimpliSafe, Ring, Nest, etc.)?

The ELK sensors themselves you shared above are actually a great value at $50 (if they truly are fail-safe). Something like that might work for the mother-in-law who is only looking for security and not home automation.

See i think there would be a market for one of the major "hub home automation & security" companies to have a line of stuff in that 2.5x as expensive as the $20 sensors but actually works range. I have been looking at buying automation and security things for a while, but never came across anything like those (probably because they are a closed ecosystem).

Thank you all for the discussion and information!! Only been involved in the home automation and safety world for a couple weeks and it's a night and day difference compared to industrial automation and safety world for sure! I still think "DIY" or "consumer" can be safe and reliable, but completely agree most people are probably just after "cheap".

Links are all over. Search for ELK, DSC those systems can be integrated with real Home Automation systems unlike the one's you mentioned above :slight_smile:

Home Automation and Security should be kept separate but can be married to work together. There is a market you are in the wrong place for it.

Here's a just now entry. They integrated their Vista Alarm panel with Hubitat

Keep security and HA separate but marry them for the best of both worlds :slight_smile:

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Why? If I may ask?

BTW, you are totally right about the price not being established. My bad, my mind was making conclusions where it should not have.

Partially historical and partially best practice (still). Security systems are designed for that purpose and use. They must meet certain standards and criteria to be a "Security System" and approval from the industry much like how devices for Home Automation must go through Z-Wave Certification to be approved. However the security system requirements are very stringent on reliability and resiliency.

Security system do security very well as they are intended to and some then do some pieces of home automation "ok".

Home Automation platforms do that function well and then lack on security mostly because of the devices/protocols they are built around supporting. There are a couple of HA systems that have married the two into a single system (SmartThings ADT and VeraSecure) are common systems. They integrated a security system into the same "box" but they are still separate but integrated.

To summarize each system does their intended purpose well and neither does the other very well. Things work best when using the correct tool for the job and realizing when a multi-tool is great when handy but is not the best and does not replace a full sized screw driver or pair of pliers etc etc... :slight_smile:

Ok, so it's what I expected. Then there is a gap in the market. But it should be filled with a system that does both well and with all the certifications. Not impossible, but needs a lot of work. Not that I'm interested in filling that gap though. Not my cup of tea. :smile:

If gap you mean one system that does it all and does it all well then... I suppose so. There are systems that do both and they are targeted to the average consumer market and those people are very happy with them. Thousands of people are happy with these consumer oriented all-in-one systems.

When you get into serious home automation a all-in-one can't do everything because they are not extensible by design to keep them secure and reliable.

I don't view it as a gap but understanding using the correct tool for the correct job and if you understand the "job" correctly and know they need to be integrated together then that is possible and the best of both worlds.

Yes, that is what I meant. Though they don't have to be the same software... But it could be the same hardware. Just like Google and Amazon is using servers with virtualization to run multiple virtual servers with totally different goals. Though, the "marriage" of them is a nice feature and even more easy if it is all on one peace of hardware.

Not possible with current UL listing requirements for security panels. They specifically limit the capabilities of the hardware and specify no operating system allowed. Must be embedded hardware.

Elk and HAI have some automation capability, but it's limited. I tried it on the Elk back around 2008, and had to supplement the capabilities with a Vera. The Elk is great for security though, I put one in my new house a few years ago.

ELK + Automation Controller (insert brand choice) is an unbeatable combination! :smile:

I always approach everything from perspective that nothing is close to perfect. But the more redundancy and in HE case more events from multiple sources the closer to perfect this would ever be

Actually I’m very pleasantly surprised at the cost of quality professional kit in the alarm market. True it’s costly when you add installation, maintenance and contracts on top but if you’re prepared to learn and do it yourself it’s very reasonably priced.

Currently looking at Texecom myself and their Ricochet wireless sensors/keypads. These all act as repeaters too even though they are battery devices with good battery lives.

I’m a firm believer in a standalone functional alarm with just an extra ‘smarts’ link into your home automation system

I contacted Ring and they informed me that their system does in fact do 2-way polling of end devices to see if they are "alive" and that the polling rate is about once an hour. That is still very slow, but its better than absolutely nothing lol.

I am awaiting the same info from ELK as I could not find that info on their website. They also push "professional installation" pretty hard and make it difficult to buy/spec a system on your own so I have not figured out a total cost yet, but seems like it will be at least 5x as expensive as a Ring system not including installation and monthy charges (if it even works in Puerto Rico where this one will be installed)

What prices "all-in" are you seeing for these quality professional kits? Do they use wireless sensors or wired? If wireless, do they advertise what their fail-safe detection polling rate is?

Last I looked the default supervisory check-in for sensors was 60 seconds for 2-way wireless sensors.

A DIY ELK kit is roughly $720 - $800 retail. This is a "starter" kit with wireless.
Then you will have to determine additional sensors you want.