I'm sorry for misunderstanding. You're saying that when the group device reports that it is turned on by SAR, but none of the outlets are turned on that that is correct and expected? Huh. Surprising to me.
But you're saying this is the expected behavior for a group composed of these devices and that my confusion or surprise is unwarranted? Huh. I'm genuinely confused how I am supposed to read the rule that explicitly says it turns on and sets level but in fact only sets level.
I would suggest that you consider changing the web text to just 'set level' if it doesn't turn on groups and this way always the intent.
Can you point me at how this is supposed to be accomplished since this way used to work for me but doesn't anymore? Is it just 'make a lot of extra duplicate rules' with dimmers always triggered separately from outlets? Those is the intended design? or is there some other strategy that everyone else knows?
Would a scene work? I know you can set various levels and on/off within a scene. And that gives you a virtual switch to turn on/off to activate said scene.
OK, I hear that you don't like this or my explanation for why it is the way it is. But the reality is that if we were to change how it works for Group, that would blow other people's automations out of the water.
Simple Automation Rule (not 1.1) hasn't changed in 5 months. Group-2.1 hasn't changed in 11 months.
This would work perfectly, since it does send each device exactly the command you want for that specific device: on for a switch, level for a dimmer, etc.
Thanks for the suggestion, neonturbo. This is the first concrete suggestion I've seen here on any way to actually do what I'm tring to do.
I understand why bravenel is defensive and cranky at me, since I'm obviously not that clueful and have done a bad job of explaining the problem, but I'm really still here just trying to figure out (several days later) how to turn on some Christmas lights when the UI as written and the logs as they appear don't do what they say they will do.
Is a scene a better approach here? Is a rule in SAR specifically only supposed to do a single thing (either set level or turn on but never both?) and I should have known that?
Maybe there's some documentation that I didn't read that explains the confusing web interface here.
I didn't see a suggestion here, bravenel, but I'll try the scene idea if you don't have any ideas on how to have a single rule tigger both a level change and a switch state to on.
Thanks for your time walking me through this. Sorry that my expectations were misaligned with the product's functions in a way that seemed annoying to you.
Not annoyed at all, just trying to explain what's going on.
If you didn't use a Group, and just put the devices directly into the SAR rule, one rule could do it just fine. The problem came from trying to use the Group that particular way. A Scene would work too. If it were me, I'd just put the devices right into the rule and avoid the extra complexity of a Scene.
SAR does turn on a Switch mixed in with dimmers for 'Turn on and set level' -- it's Group that doesn't do that.
So when people have a bunch of devices that go on and off together and have several rules that manage the behavior of those devices, they put them in the rules one by one?
Maybe it's having a software engineering background that gives me this impression but that seems... messy, tedious and error prone. is that really how this is supposed to work.
If i have 8 devices that have 4 rules associated with them. something like "get bright at dusk, go dim at 22:00, get bright again at 6am and turn off at dawn...
you're saying i would add all 8 devices individually to each of those 4 rules with no abstractions?
i'm honestly just asking how people with more experience do this.
That is the good (or bad depending upon your outlook) thing about Hubitat. There are so many ways to do things, there is no "right" way. Just the way that works for you and for your situation.
It depends. In how many automations are you likely to want to control that particular set of lights?
If it's several, then put them in a Scene if that helps. A Scene will control each device quite specifically, and this is the best way when the devices have different individual settings (as opposed to all being just turned on or off).
Most users are more interested in the efficiency of their automations than they in the efficiency of creating the automations, since they only create them once. The former suggests that the devices be individually added to each automation for direct control. The latter approach means the creation of Groups or Scenes, or other intermediary apps/devices etc.
Another way to do it would be to create a rule in Rule Machine that turns on the lights and switches, either directly or in a Scene. That rule could then be "run" by other rules if this were something that might be done in several different contexts.
This is what I prefer. I don’t like a bunch of rules all controlling a device. For certain lights - line my welcome light (outside and light just inside the door), kitchen under cabinet lights, specific times lights, etc. I prefer to have other rules flip VS to request certain actions on those lights (or run them directly for the RMs that don’t have any triggers - these I call functions) and the RM controlling them does certain actions or levels based on mode (time of day).
My “devices per mode” RM triggers the appropriate rules at the right lux levels.
Not saying that I don’t use groups. I do. Especially for Alexa support and button controllers.
Having thought about your problem with Group, I realize that an easy fix is to add an option to Group. Let's call it "Command Mixed Devices". With this option selected, sending a level command would turn on a switch. Likewise, sending a setColor command, would set the level on a dimmer, etc. This would not be difficult, and would have solved your problem.
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