this is simply not possible...
There aren't any mystery parameters for this device, and any device parameters that do exist are reset to factory defaults when a device is joined to a new network.
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I gave you an explanation above. Different dimmers dim different ways. Look up leading edge vs trailing edge dimming, for example. Not all dimmers dim at the same frequency. Some dimmers have better components.
Along with the dimmer, you now have the variability of how they make the bulb. They have to convert AC to DC, to drive the LED, and there are cheap and good ways to do this. A half-wave rectifier for example will flicker pretty bad, and you can often see this in Christmas light strings (or at least some people like me do). God that annoys me with the flicker! The quality of the capacitors, the capacitor values, and about 100 other things go into how well a bulb converts AC to DC and drives the LED itself.
There is simply some interaction between this bulb and dimmer combo. Incandescent bulbs don't have this issue as they don't do the AC to DC conversion, they are simply resistive devices.
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I totally understand what you mean but the key statement in what you say is
different dimmers dim in different ways
In my case, it has always been the same dimmer. Only the hub it was paired with changed (HE Vs Lyric).
Thanks for the link.
I understand this is a hardware characteristic of the dimmer; in other word, the leading/trailing aspect cannot be changed by the hub, correct ?
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Correct... Most devices can’t be changed.. There is one that can.. The rgbgenie z-wave micro dimmer can switch in a config variable between trailing and leading edge.. But this is the only device I have seen that does that
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Thanks. Then I'm absolutely clueless what could be the root cause. None of the parameters I can read using the basic tool has changed since the last attempt in HE but this time, no flicker.
At this point it's the bulb in conjunction with the line voltage being delivered to the dimmer.
Personally I would replace the bulb(s) and move on...
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The Fibaro does and the aeotec I believe also does both. They take a snapshot of the load at the beginning and set them selves up. This is why you need to down power them before your replace the lamp though.
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Well, it works now so I won't replace the bulbs, neither unpair the dimmer but the whole thing is frustrating as there is no explanation.
Lutron adaptive phase dimmers.
Blame the Covid-19 then. It's an easy target right now to blame for anything.
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Consider the likelihood of a marginal condition that can be exacerbated by line voltage (as Mike mentioned) or temperature or what circuit you are plugged into or .......
Even now that it doesn't flicker I would guess the condition will not remain. In situations like this there is seldom one single root cause.
I guess its the nature of the beast.
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Here's my followup. Not sure yet whether I'm going to file this in the "dimmers and LEDs are finicky" cabinet, or file it in my growing "the 2nd-gen Enbrighten dimmers have bad firmware" cabinet...
I have a 2nd-gen GE Enbrighten dimmer. It's hooked to 4 LED can lights. (Integrated units, so replacing the bulbs is not an option this time.)
If I control it off/on via z-wave commands, it works perfectly always.
If I control it from the physical switch, it flickers (60hz) when at high brightness. (It does not seem to flicker at low brightness, at least that I can discern.)
Here's a reproduction workflow:
- Turn on to the max brightness with the switch. It flickers.
- Turn off then on via a z-wave command (at level 99). No flicker.
- Press down then up on the switch. It flickers again.
And an even weirder reproduction workflow. This one causes flickering via z-wave commands, and then fixes it via z-wave commands:
- Turn on to level 99 via z-wave. No flicker.
- Dim to level 80 via z-wave. It starts flickering.
- SetLevel back to 99 via z-wave. It continues flickering.
- Turn off then on via z-wave. It stops flickering.
These are fully, 100% reproducible every time.
I'm not really looking for a solution. I know my real solution is to replace it with a 1st-gen dimmer. I've had no issues with those. But two conclusions I've come to:
- Dimmers and LEDs are finicky. Combinations (and maybe adding the quality of my line voltage) sometimes don't work. The electronics of the dimmer and the AC-DC converter in the LED sometimes don't play well together.
- But given that the device behaves differently depending on physical commands vs digital commands, I believe the firmware of these 2nd-gen devices is flawed.
Fortunately, I mostly don't use the physical switch in this room. It's just automated. But I'll probably eventually replace it with a 1st-gen dimmer.
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Thanks for the follow-up.
I gave up on these switches to be honest.
They have inconsistent behavior depending on the hub you use and as you mention depending if they are controlled manually or through z-wave commands.
For mines, the issue disappeared only to reappear a few days later so I replaced all of them (except one to keep testing) with Zooz ones
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I am a new hubitat user and am experiencing a similar light flickering problem with my GE 1st gen switches. I have 1 switch that controls 4 lights in a fan and the other switch just controls 1 light. They all flicker at the same time across both switches. Running a stop watch on it reveals that is starts every 20 seconds, flickers for 20 seconds then stops and will repeat every 20 seconds. Dimming under 80 seems to fix it, although, I don't know if its fixing it or if I can just no longer notice. It is not a fast flicker, its more like a small blink or dim operation every second for the 20 second span of time.
I moved from smartthings hub to hubitat about 3 weeks ago. This problem started after the move to hubitat so I find it hard to believe that I had 2 switches and 5 bulbs go bad at the same time. especially since the flickering seems to be synchronized. So far I have only noticed the problem on the 1st gen switches. A newly installed 2nd gen switch controlling 4 LED pot lights does not appear to be effected.
Perhaps this would help, from another similar thread:
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I've found a thread somewhere on this forum that suggested it could be the LED lightbulbs not drawing enough current. In my situation, I had issues with ceiling fan light fixtures that had 3 or 4 candelabra bulbs. The bulbs were all LED. So for me, as a "fix", I replaced one of the bulbs with a incandescent bulb. No more flickers. Works for me.
Some feedback after all the tries I did.
At one point I gave up on these GE switches/dimmers but... decided to install them again.
Facts:
- when paired with the HoneyWell Lyric Hub, I had no flickering
- when paired with HE, the flickering occurred above 50 / 60%
- when replaced by another dimmer (ZooZ) at the same location and with the same bulbs, no flickering whatever the hub (Lyric or HE)
(wrong) Conclusions:
- because it doesn't flicker with ZooZ I didn't consider the bulbs could be the cause
- because it doesn't flicker with GE paired on Lyric, I didn't consider the bulbs could be the cause
Against all logic... I changed the bulbs... and no flickering anymore, whatever the configuration.
The bulbs I had: SATCO br30 9.5W dimmable
The bulbs I replaced them with: GE Br30 8.5W dimmable
I put the SATCO in another room, with a ZooZ paired with HE, and they are working fine.
Explanation:
- I still don't have any... could it be that a lesser wattage (8.5 Vs 9.5) fixed the problem? but then why only when pairing the GE dimmer with HE and not Lyric?
My advice: give a try with different bulbs. I was told so and ignored it because it didn't make sense but at the end, that "fixed" my problem...
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Curious....
I have two thoughts:
- 50% on the Lyric is not 50% on the Hubitat.
- I don't think the 8.5 Vs 9.5 is significant. I believe the circuitry that collects power to run the electronics is more likely to cause incompatibilities.
