Excluding devices from ST

I found that using general exclusion mode via the ST Hub was more successful than using the Hubitat hub for my old GE Z-Wave light switches. YMMV.

@ogiewon - you may remember that Hubitat did at least two updates to improve their Exclude. Live Logging was one if my memory is accurate.

One thing I remember from my Z-Wave decommissioning on ST (and also, a couple of times on HE) when doing excludes was that a few times there was no message produced by the ST app when in fact the exclude did happen correctly. I made a habit of trying the exclude, then if I saw no results, try operating the device from the ST app. If it wasn't able to operate it, then the exclude worked. Seems like all my GE switch exclusions went down this way.

I tried this out yesterday excluding 4 Z-Wave devices and it was pretty good but I still prefer ST because the app pops up a notification for successful exclusion instead of looking at the live log and look for the message. If you don't have ST then nothing wrong using HE for exclusion.
I was having a hard time adding a couple of devices and find success with after a hub reboot or Z-Wave repair so don't kill yourself spending too much time adding and get frustrated on a device.
I actually have a digital folder with manuals for all my devices. Yeah weird but saved me plenty of time searching around.

I like my Aeon Z-Stick.. blinking blue or orange light (include or exclude) with flickering when actively performing. Battery operated, meaning portable. :slight_smile:

I actually have a digital folder with manuals for all my devices. Yeah weird but saved me plenty of time searching around.

No that's a great idea. Some of these exclude routines are not intuitive. "Hit reset twice while holding power button, inserting batteries, doing a backflip, and humming the national anthem"

I did the same last Saturday. New Hubitat just staring at me, daring me to "git 'r done" and I didn't want to manage multiple systems. I decided the band-aid approach was best for me, "grip it and rip it" (aka the "Tin Cup" approach).

Steps I lined out:

  1. Eliminate all automations (documenting them if you have any concerns remembering them all)
  2. Room by room - exclude in ST / discover in HE / rebuild z-wave network (on both hubs)
  3. Grab a beer (other beverages may work, YMMV) and get to work on setting up your new automations!

I don't have 100 devices, but it still took some time and LOTS of patience (exclusion/discovery process isn't always as smooth as you'd hope). In the end, it was a very therapeutic process for me and I'm very happy I have everything up and running in Hubitat!

Sounds like a plan. I also realized I should probably take screenshots of my more complicated pistons. Once I start excluding devices I won't be able to tell what was in there.

I'm revisiting using a minimote for exclusion/inclusion. I didn't have luck last time, but was probably doing it wrong. This looks to be updated: FAQ: Use Aeon Minimote for Inclusion - FAQ - SmartThings Community

You know what would be great? TWO minimotes. One on ST for exclusion, and one on HE for inclusion.

Exclusion is "universal"

ANY device that can initiate exclusion can exclude ANY device.

The Minimote, paired to Hubitat, will trivially exclude devices that are paired to ANYTHING, including ST.

So you have your Two Minimotes.. all in one cute white package :smiley:

{ I'm not saying exclude/include is trivial, just that entering the mode(s) is. ]

aHA. And on the flipside, inclusion should be one-way? (only needed one-way in this case)

Okay, and now I get your Z-stick joke. Wow, that's devious.

You must Include from a device that is ON the ZWave network you want to join.

Exclude zeros out the home network number of a device, therefore any controller can do it. You can put your ST hub on a long wire and exclude Hubitat paired devices, if you wanted to.. Some people like ST's reporting better than Hubitat.

It almost sounds like a serious security exploit waiting to happen.

Physical access is required for the simple devices. The Minimote or the ZStick are short range radios.

Many things about Z-Wave seem half baked; this has always bugged me. If this were ever widely deployed in an apartment building it's not impossible for someone to inadvertently exclude someone else's devices, since a single touch of the 'action button' (as in, a single activation of the paddle of a GE Z-Wave switch) with a nearby hub in exclude mode would suffice. I guess in this case range limiting radio penetration through walls might save the day,

So, my thoughts:

  1. Install OtherHub and SmartThings Integration apps for two-way interhub connections
  2. Exclude minimote from ST, and pair it to HE
  3. Choose the room closest to the hub. Use minimote* to exclude wired Z-wave repeaters first, then battery devices, and include to HE with remote. Just do a simple reset for Zigbee devices, then pair to HE.
  4. Rebuild Z-Wave networks on both hubs
  5. Install and/or modify device handlers for the new devices
  6. Rebuild new automations with Rule Machine, or change references within OtherHub/ST Integration so existing automations work when initiated from either hub. Clean it up and make sure there are no conflicting automations trying to control the same device.
  7. Move to next room and repeat. Do the rooms farthest from the hub last. (Or, keep track of which repeaters are doing their job, and spiral out based on their locations)

*Minimote optional, but some of my stuff is spaced far apart - might make it easier.

It sounds like you're planning on keeping your ST network going in parallel for a while (mine is still half migrated, and I've been at it since February). If you're planning on doing this in stages and want what's left of your ST Z-Wave network to keep functioning in the meantime, you probably want to start with battery operated (non-routing) devices first. Of course you'll need some Z-Wave routers to start your HE mesh. You'll probably want to migrate those that are farthest from your ST hub first.

Also, I made it a practice to not delete any device from the ST app. It makes it easier to migrate automations, since you can go into the ST app later and find what apps they were used in and make sure your HE automations are covered. I have many automations in ST using shadow HE devices, and several HE automations using shadowed ST devices. It's been working very well.... so well it has seriously unmotivated me to keep up with my migration.

Hah, that's good to know it can be that solid for a while with two hubs. I'm definitely going to push for eliminating ST asap, as I'm a one-brain kinda guy. But yeah, it looks like it won't be done in a day.

I am not sure inclusion will work:

Maybe @bravenel can confirm.

I used a Minimote back in june with one, maybe two 'reluctant' devices. It did work, but I found the ZStick to work and was a little bit easier.. one button, no cover to fumble.

Won't work with Secure Devices, or at least didn't in my case (Yale door lock).

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