It is my understandingly that a local backup does not contain radio information and therefore cannot be migrated or restored to a different or new hub, where as a Cloud backup can.
Simple question: what is the purrpose of a local backup,
It is my understandingly that a local backup does not contain radio information and therefore cannot be migrated or restored to a different or new hub, where as a Cloud backup can.
Simple question: what is the purrpose of a local backup,
It's used to recover from a corrupt database or in my case recently, to roll back a community integration that was causing me some issues. You can also download and store local backups. I have yet to need a cloud backup but it's there if I need it.
You can restore the local backup to a new hub you will just have to repair all of the devices. This was what we had to do before there was a cloud backup available.
I use Local Backups as a means to safeguard against myself when making significant changes to one of my hubs. As a software developer, it is also nice to be able to go back to a known working version of things, in case development goes awry. The same can be said for extensive development of Rule Machine Rules as well as installing/removing custom community developed drives and apps.
Local Backups were all that existed originally with Hubitat. And thus many of us who have been around since the beginning in 2018, have come to depend of them. The cloud backups are a great addition, especially if one uses Z-Wave and Zigbee radios extensively. The Hub Protect optional subscription comes with both an Extended Hardware Warranty as well a Cloud Backups. The Cloud Backup subscription has just cloud backups, but you get 10 of them instead of 5 that Hub Protect comes with. It is good to have options!
You're stating the common "bumper sticker" style analysis of local backup. Focusing on what it doesn't provide.
I say bumper sticker because there's often wisdom in the ultra shortened phrase.
The device info is stored out on the ZWave and Zigbee SOC (system on a chip) radio's memory. As a result of that segmentation, destroying the contents of the SOC's memory is pretty hard. Therefore a Local Backup, once restored, will reconnect with all the devices found in the SOCs.
A local backup is NOT the ideal choice for any New Hub activity, it's best suited for working hubs that need a "rewind" to some instance of Yesterday.
I don't know the actual numbers, possibly no one does, but I'm going to guess that 90% of hub restores are fixed via restoring local backup. The opportunity to corrupt the platform DB is just so much higher than affecting the SOCs.
As to restoring to a different or new hub, a Cloud Backup is the ideal choice. Perhaps there's a chart that better illustrates this, but there are many "free" paths to having a Cloud Backup. A subscription allows for a deeper collection, but I have saved a Cloud "Migration Ready" Backup for each of my hubs, before I ever signed up for Hub Protect or Cloud Backup.
We've seen it over and over again in the Community where Hubitat sends out a courtesy replacement hub, only to find the symptoms repeat, leading to an eventual discovery of the actual underlying problem that was not a hardware (or Platform) issue. This, I believe, reinforces the notion that a local backup cures such a high percentage of issues.
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@csteele @ogiewon I use Hubitat at a property that is far away, and I have an extra hub there just in case the primary fails, but the migration needs to be reasonably straightforward. Re-pairing 40+ z* devices is not really an option. Is it possible to somehow save the z-wave and zigbee radio info in a local backup that is downloaded to my computer? Or is this only possible with the cloud backup and I should just subscribe? You are mentioning "many free paths" to having a cloud backup, could you be more specific? Thanks in advance!
No.
The only "free" cloud backup path I am aware of is to use a cloud backup as a "Migration Backup", which can be used to migrate to a new hub.
Thank you, @aaiyar. Sounds like the Migration Backup you are referring to can be created only on the old hubs (pre-C8) for purposes of migrating to C8, right? So, to summarize - there is absolutely no way to backup/restore z* radio data without some type of subscription to cloud backups - is this correct? Thanks again.
The C8 (non Pro) supports Migration Backup for the purpose of migrating to the C8-Pro hub.
I would recommend either a Hub Protect OR a Cloud Backup subscription to safeguard your system.
Important to remember that restoring a local backup does not change your hub's platform version.
So sort of the third leg of this stool is the Hub Platform Version. Hubitat's built-in apps, integrations, drivers, etc., are provided in Platform version releases. They contain all apps, drivers, integrations, etc. E.g., if Rule Machine is upated to a new version or bugs in RM are fixed, or a new built-in driver or app is added, etc., those are delivered to your hub via a platform version update. For example:
So if you want/need to roll back to a previous version of a built in app, integration, driver, etc., you have to roll back to a previous platform version, which is done via the Hub Diagnostic Tool (Settings>Diagnostic Tool).
Yes, that is correct.
Which automation platform did you move to Hubitat from? I am asking because unlike platforms such as the Ezlo hub, z-radio failures in Hubitat are extremely rare. In 7+ years of using Hubitat, I have not had a single z-radio failure during normal use. So much so, that the vast majority of Hubitat users do not have a cloud backup subscription.
With that said, I feel that we expend so much effort in setting up our automated homes, that it makes good sense to use the Cloud Backup service (or Hub Protect) as an insurance.
It also provides a revenue stream for Hubitat Inc. to continue making improvements to the platform by way of new integrations, or to devise ways that provide new functionality to existing hardware.
Hi @ogiewon @danabw @marktheknife and @aaiyar, thank you all for your detailed and very helpful responses! Now I am completely clear on this functionality, and yes, I will add the Cloud Backup subscription ![]()
@aaiyar, I did not migrate to Hubitat, I've installed it during a major remodeling, and now the home requires some type of a z-wave + zigbee hub because many fixtures are not wired to physical switches. The wall switches are z-wave (Zooz) and the relays are zigbee (Sonoff), and I was looking to add some Matter-based colored lights (Govee), so naturally all-in-one Hubitat came on top of the list, though I am planning to add Home Assistant for complex integrations unique to HA. I agree with your point that Cloud Backup / Hub Protect is reasonably priced and provides a good insurance.
Regarding the "z-radio failures" - I am not looking to safeguard from just a z-radio failure. I am looking to easily replace the entire Hubitat box if it gets bricked somehow, which is why I keep the second C8 Pro Hubitat around and hopefully ready to migrate to using Cloud Backup.
Thanks again!