This response isn't helpful, in fact it's slightly inflammatory, and likely driving this thread further into personal conflicts & attacks - Its certainly not helping to lower the discussion temperature - One could reasonably point out, that such a tidbit of knowledge (Controller for Homekit installation issues) is off-topic, but that's a long way from ignorant. I'm not sure (and I'm not inclined to check) where the ignorant term got introduced in the last thread, but it certainly wasn't helpful nor respectful of other's opinions or interests. IMHO this topic really isn't even remotely "ignorant", as it was around details that we're specifically asked about another user having installation problems, with a SW product that's not directly related to HE. (one could argue that it's a competitor with HE).
As to how it benefits, the HE community, it's around general knowledge and being helpful with options around other home automation eco-systems that can integrate with HE - Namely, Apple Home in this case.
There are literally thousands of discussions in this forum around Home-Assistant, Hue, Aqua, YoLink, Sterling, etc. that that are companies or products that make competing SW or hubs and usually such integration discussions are welcomed, and at worse case, a suggestion is made to go check out that vendor's support forums for better info - Which all seems reasonable to me. There are deeper discussions around concurrency control, threading, semaphores, parsing, etc - That don't directly relate to the HE product, or have examples where HE is compared to a competing's vendor's approach. I've never seen these labeled as "ignorant" before.
I would have expected a more thoughtful and nuanced response, but at this point, it is what it is.
I think it’s a shame that a complaint from a very small number of people resulted in a change to forum privileges re: marking a post as a solution.
Is it possible to abuse? Of course.
But I have marked probably dozens of posts as solutions over the years. Not my own posts, other people’s posts. Because each post was a clear solution to the question/problem noted in each thread. And yet, the post wasn’t checked as a solution.
A thread’s OP doesn’t always mark a post as a solution. Maybe they don’t know how, maybe they don’t care, maybe they forgot to.
Those solution check marks aren’t carved in stone. They can be unchecked if a post is accidentally marked as a solution, or there is disagreement over whether it’s actually a solution (or the only/best solution).
I think that taking the privilege away from regular users with a sufficient trust level makes the forum a worse place.
Exactly, and they usually are in an appropriate thread for that conversation. BobbyD initially said here that the post went off topic and that is why it was closed. It was not the topic itself, it was where it went. I just can't imagine taking such things so personally in a home automation forum!
I can see how that might be useful especially for lengthy threads. Marking a post as the solution adds a link to it on the first post, which could save valuable time scrolling through hundreds of posts to find the right answer. I will look to add the moderators group to the folks who can assign a solution to a thread.
I don't disagree with that approach (seems a little premature in the lounge, but whatever), but you seem to miss the primary point of my concern. - Noting something as off topic is fine. Labeling a post (and indirectly the poster) as ignorant, is clearly getting a bit personal, and going to elicit a negative response.
And having staff ask why this topic isn't ignorant in a HE forum, I attempted to answer that. And to make my point around "thousands of posts" that are likely off topic, and some with positive/negative perspectives around HE, I've never seen them labeled ignorant before.
To make this brutally clear - the word choice of "ignorant" was my primary concern, which seemed inappropiate and intentionally inflammatory to me.
The biggest problem with the "solution" button open to everyone was that some people felt the need to tag there solution as "the" solution when it fact it was not at all, I have personally removed and corrected the solution in many threads to the real solution. Some people probably need to inflate there egos by having the most "solution" stats ?
Sounds like removing the solution button was the endgame for a select few who want to be crowned the only Hubitat knowledge gods. Congrats, you special 108 have been spotted. Confess now.
I do agree about the lounge forum that the lounge forum should be a lot looser when it comes to closing it especially when everyone is curtuous, maybe have reminders that it's going sideways is important in some forums, the lounge should be a little less stringent.
I was an admin on a very large forum many years ago with over 25 moderators in addition to the admins. It was very hard to keep everyone on the same page but I've never seen "power trips" as someone mentioned, not ever. When large discussions had to be closed, the decision to close it was always taken in a group and if 2 seniors decided to close it, it would be closed immediately. Rarely would moderators close a thread without an admin giving it an ok unless it was very obvious it had to be closed on the spot.
Just a point for clarification, the original comment was not that the post was ignorant. It was that a perspective (that had been explained repeatedly) was ignorant. I may not agree with the word chosen. But I also do not believe that we can just say the same thing over and over (without providing additional and different details) and expect to get anything accomplished. Repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results is a definition for a similar word. One which is just as inflammatory. I would say it is likely and very human to get frustrated in that situation and not make the best word choices.
The premise of the OP post was to have constructive criticism. One bit of constuctive criticism I would add to many of these comments is to realize that it is often easy to misread the intent of the author's written word. It is also easy to take offense to things taken out of context.
I am the guy that had to write e-mails, and then save them in my drafts and re-read them an hour or more later (or have someone else read for tone) before I sent. Not because I was intending to blast someone initially. But because I am borderline neuro, and my brain processes things that get misinterpreted when I try to get them down in a written sentence or paragraph. (So - please keep that in mind when reading my comments as well. I rarely intend to offend. When I do, it would be VERY blatant)
You saying that the mods don't use thread closures as way of power tripping doesn't make it so. It's so ridiculously obvious, there are so many examples of it happening.
Why's making this worse (not just to me, but by the replies, to others too) is the absence of someone just saying "hey, hands up, we fucked up", and moving on.
One specific example being your 'mod' throwing a very, very obvious insult at a member. Then being defended for doing so.
I'd like to suggest giving at least one of the existing moderators a 90 day vacation from that role. It might give us a sense of the background censorship and heavy handedness that seems to actually be happening when there is not an actual TOS violation.
I think we all could save energy if we take a few minutes and read through our community guidelines.
"Moderators (may) have special authority; they are (volunteers) responsible for this forum. But so are you. With your help, moderators can be community facilitators, not just janitors or police.
When you see bad behavior, don’t reply. It encourages the bad behavior by acknowledging it, consumes your energy, and wastes everyone’s time. Just flag it (or send a private message to an admin). If enough flags accrue, action will be taken, either automatically or by moderator intervention (or an admin if that person is a moderator)."
I do think there should be some guidance to the moderators that the user can see that maybe defines this a little better.
In order to maintain our community, moderators reserve the right to remove any content and any user account for any reason at any time.
Mainly, this kind of language has turned at least one moderator into a bit of a heavy handed micro managing anti community bully. How could it not?they have been giving the right to do anything.
The problem is just like good parenting. Setting expections with children and being consistent with corrections is important. Parenting without being clear on the rules and punishing when unspoken rules are broken creates very bad children that turn into bad adults.
Your TOS mentions no actual rules. Your guidelines aren't specific. I'm sort of fine with that, but if somone uses profanity constructively is that going to be moderated consistently? Is it OK? As a person that's been operating forums for 3+ decades I'd say this comminity is pretty well behaved without moderation and the big personalities tend to be constructive. At the same time some moderators cross the line and behave badly making the experience here seem capricious and juvenile at times.
(Unwritten) EXEMPTION: If the offense occurs in the Debate Chamber, it doesn't count, evidently.
Explanation
Yes, I threw up a little in my mouth as I repeat that "fact" as explained by staff. Never mind that we're talking about a continuing pattern of behavior (by my count, going back at least 6 1/2 years) on the part of the same moderator.
Message received: Drop it. Move on. Topic "solved".
Don't believe me? Click the Flag. See where your report leads.
This is where I go back to lurking and not tryna stir no pots.
