Constructive criticism - board moderation

💬 Lounge Debate Chamber
22

I’d like to clarify one point, because I think there may be a misunderstanding.

I didn’t step in to redirect the discussion back to the original topic. What I said was that I personally would limit my own replies to topics related to my experience, simply because I don’t consider myself a deep technical expert. That was a personal decision about my own participation, not an attempt to steer or limit the discussion for others.

Technical discussions between other members were still valid and, in my view, fully appropriate for the thread. People correcting details or discussing technical nuances is normal in a technical community and not something I see as derailment.

Regarding the closure itself, I understand from your response that this was a team decision, not an individual moderator action. I accept that. My disappointment is not about who made the decision, but about the outcome: a constructive discussion with broad participation was stopped while it was still active and respectful.

I’ll leave it there and thank you for clarifying the team’s position.

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23

continuing here...

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STOPPING a discussion doesn't allow it to remain productive. It does, however, give the impression that the powers-that-be dislike what is being said. And I cba with someone who cba to contribute at all being thd one who decides there's been enough talking for now, thanq very much.

Also, I can't stress the point enough. The dashboards are so far behind the 3rd party offerings, it would take an unfeasonable amount of time and effort to bring them to a comparable level.

I could have sold a fair few hubs and subs. Maybe MAYBE MAYBE if the dashboards improve, I still could. But integrating a 3rd party one and allowing it to operate locally? I'd sell one tomorrow.

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25

Discussion’s continuing right here if you’re interested in participating.

26

I'm already participating in the thread I created.

No need for me to be ushered elsewhere thank you.

27

Suit yourself. There seems to be more discussion going on in the other one.

Perhaps the pace of the discussion will pick up in this one too.

28

Can we merge the two threads....

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29

Seems like the OP wouldn’t be interested in that?

I was under the impression this thread was created to discuss OP’s grievances re: how some threads in this forum are managed.

That’s the only thing he actually brought up when creating it. There was no further discussion similar to the thread that was closed.

That and goading other people to respond negatively:

I thought it might be helpful to simply create a new thread with a link to the closed one and encourage others to continue the discussion there.

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30

Fair enough.

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31

Yeah - I disagree with you entirely on this.

Discussing the function and capabilities of Controller for Homekit is loosely within the purview of this forum (bear in mind, it is paid for Hubitat Inc, to provide a resource for Hubitat users to discuss issues with their Hubitat hubs).

OTOH, discussing the INSTALLATION behavior of Controller for Homekit on OS X is completely beyond the purview of this forum. There is no reason for Hubitat Inc to bear the costs of hosting your opinion on how an OS X app should behave on installation.

While you may not intend it, your continued perspective that discussing the installation behavior of a third-party OS X app is relevant for a forum paid for by Hubitat Inc. comes off as ignorant.

32

I'd like to voice that I often don't agree with aaiyar's Admin decisions.

I also believe the 'lounge' forum shouldn't be moderated like the rest of the forum and people should not be censored heavily.

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33

I've edited the title to be more appropriate, as per the OP at the top of this thread.

Here's the thing. It's easy to "read the room" to see that there's a general feeling that negative comments towards the system, constructive or not, are either handled poorly, utterly ignored, or in some cases locked down. This (imo) stifles responses. People already know there's effectively no point.

If that's not the intention, that's certainly the reality. That last locked thread is a great example - long-term lurkers contributed which, in a forum dominated by a small number of regulars speaks volumes.

And what happened? Shut down. Locked. Which is exactly what was predicted in that original thread.

But now one of you guys have kindly decided to open another thread, and have (IMHO) rather condescendingly said (paraphrasing here) "we may have shut down your original converation, but, behold! We have demonstrated it's possible to start a new thread. Have at it, children!"

And you really think that that's going to happen? Conversations don't work that way.

This is the lounge. General bullshit area. How. Many converation IRL stick to the original topic of the first few sentences?

Completely understand that forums need a little law and order. Someone veers away from a technical thread in webcore support, starts posting about hating Yorkshire puddings? Sure, sort it out. Do what you need to.

Someone posts a stack of swastikas and tells someone to get fucked? Again, needs sorting.

Locking threads when people have the audacity to highlight real issues and limitations is pathetic. Stifles feedback, smacks of elitism, and is not in any way a requirement.

Therefore I suspect the discussions will not flourish after this intervention. Regardless of your "kind invitation" to continue.

And I suspect this will somehow be interpreted as a community-wide admission that all is well, the issues don't exist after all, and it can all be put down to a baseless rant from some uneducated people. Bless 'em.

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34

I agree — and that’s exactly why I started the original post in the Lounge.

In other forums I’ve participated in, the approach is usually different. When discussions drift away from a specific product or become more general, they are often moved to the Lounge or an equivalent area, but not closed outright. Threads are typically even not closed if behavior becomes abusive or personal, in which case users are warned or, in the worst case, temporarily blocked.

I’m still active in other communities (for example the Homey forum). From time to time I return there to see whether the platform has evolved enough to become interesting for me again. I also regularly explain why Homey isn’t a solution for my needs, why Hubitat does certain things better, and how my current setup works. Even when discussions become heated, I’ve never seen threads closed for that reason alone — moderation usually focuses on behavior, not on the topic itself.

I was also a moderator myself for many years in a car community, and our approach was similar: address harsh behavior directly, warn or block users if necessary, but keep discussions open as long as they remain relevant and constructive. We closed discussions once their was no activity fo a many month, or imediately when the sole reason of a thread was attacking people personally.

That’s why I was surprised by the decision to close the thread. Especially in a Lounge area, I would expect room for broader discussions and personal experiences — even if they are critical — as long as they remain civil.

What I find hard to accept is the argument that, because Hubitat pays for this forum, discussions like this one shouldn’t take place.

Edit: I believe this is a community of intelligent people, and that the signal Hubitat has sent is understood by the majority.

35

I’m not sure what you mean by “signal.” If you believe there’s value in continuing your original thread, you’re welcome to do so.

Why I left Hubitat – a neutral reflection from a long-time user - :speech_balloon: Lounge - Hubitat

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37

I merged the new thread that @marktheknife created, under the original post, after it was re-opened based on feedback in this thread.

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39

It absolutely does not.

However....

40

Explain, please...

41

I slept (hard) on this before chiming in. On the one hand, I want to join in solidarity with those who (IMO correctly) brought Ambassador (not general Admin!) heavy-handedness to light in hopes that it will finally stop.

On the other hand, nobody enjoys having their wrist slapped; if I get dinged for expressing dissatisfaction with certain board moderation trends (esp. in The Lounge) or replying to a "Solved" thread, then imma give up and go back to lurking.

The gist of my pushback is this: We all agreed to this forum's Terms of Service when we signed up. I strongly believe that Hubitat Ambassadors, insofar as they were specially selected to represent the brand, ought to follow TOS to the letter. Indeed, theirs should be a higher standard. Nor do I think Ambassadors should confront members of Hubitat's other social media channels as they do on Reddit.

Without calling out anyone specifically, whenever certain Ambassador(s) resort to name-calling, intimidation, rudeness, or capricious moderation, it not only has an immediate stifling effect on open discourse... there's a ripple effect throughout the community that impinges on company reputation.

If you've never been treated as an outcast, or been bullied, or told "you don't belong here", or been strong-armed into "stepping in line" lest your privileges be revoked, then maybe this pushback doesn't resonate. But to me it does. And sometimes, frankly, it feels targeted and personal when an Ambassador acts that way and continually gets away with it.

For perspective, I invite the incredulous to check out the most active threads in The Lounge, where (by design) pretty much anything goes... even a thread with so many replies (over 10,000!) that the system automatically closed it after five years! It's got political rants, potty humor, religious jokes, etc. with nary a complaint.

So from now on, when an Ambassador shuts down an otherwise genteel conversation, or lobs a personal attack on fellow users, I'm calling BS and reporting it directly to Staff for review. I'm hoping this helps put an end to the simmering issue being called out here.

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42

I may be missing something obvious, but if the intent is to offer constructive feedback on how Hubitat can improve, the Feedback section is the appropriate place for it. Posting elsewhere significantly increases the chance that thoughtful input will be overlooked.

You raised several legitimate areas of opportunity that are worth discussing, so it’s unclear why you would want to shift away from that path.

If the objective is instead to argue why people shouldn’t use the platform at all, it’s hard to see what value that brings to a Hubitat-focused community—particularly when other forums with far larger audiences are better suited for that type of discussion.

Quite frankly, there is little value in expecting others to sift through broad, unfocused grievances spanning multiple topics, when clear and actionable feedback is what actually leads to improvement.

But I digress; to each their own.

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43

Agreed, but that street runs both ways. Some of the whining and negativism from users is overdone and just plain exhausting. Of course these anonymous forums tend to amplify that. If you truly don't like the platform or the future direction then just move on. Constructive concrete feedback is ok, over the top, redundant, and vague complaining isn't. I have pointed out some weak spots in the platform that I see, but I honestly feel the good far and away outweighs the bad.

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