[C7] [UK] Thinking about migrating Z-Wave devices from S0 to No Security

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1

Hello all,

I have about 18 Z-Wave devices paired to my C7, of which about 10 are paired as S0.
All the ones paired S0 are either Fibaro Dimmer 2 or Fibaro Switches which have no way of forcing one way of pairing or another as far as I'm aware.
I've been having some delays in my network lately and I thought about pairing those again to the hub with no security to see if that helps.
I currently don't have a USB Z-wave stick, but I would get one to do this. I'm in the UK, so I think the options we have here are a bit different than the usual recommendations on the forums.
Before I purchase anything, I just wanted to make sure it would work, since I remember reading someone who paired via an USB controller and then the device wasn't working properly once the controller was removed from the network.
Also, is it worth it changing the security of those devices and having to remake some automations, or do you think 10 S0 devices wouldn't cause that much havoc?

Thank you very much!

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I changed all of mine to none, because I noticed a bit of sluggishnes. The only way is with a stick, I had a C4 so, reused that stick for this.

It definitely works, you join the stick and then use the stick to join the device.

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Any sticks you recommend in the UK?
Also thinking about adding a repeater, but the Aeotec Range extender 7 seems to only be available with a EU plug, and the Ring Extender 2nd generation seems to be US only?

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Like I said I had mine from the old hub :man_shrugging:t3:. I have hear the aeotec one is good. I think that's what @Cobra is using?

No idea on these, I only have powered devices so don't have any dedicated repeaters sorry. I would be surprised if the aeotec didn't do a UK one though?

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And if I bought the stick, what software would I use to do the device joining without security?

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PC Controller from Silicon Labs. It is part of their Simplicity Studio program. A free account is required to download.

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Just curious, how sluggish are you talking?

I have 6 Fibaro dimmers on SO, 3 Fibaro dual relays on No security and 3 other Fibaro devices on S2 (plus a couple of random switches/buttons on S0/No security), but I don't think I really notice anything, or if I do it doesn't bother me enough clearly....

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Yes, to be honest I'm not that sure it would change anything. I guess I'm just thinking about getting it as optimized as possible. I don't really see any objective sluggishness regularly that I could pin point to a specific device

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It has been mentioned in the forums a few times that s0 security should be avoided whenever possible. It triples the amount of traffic the device has to send and could bog down the network. It has been recommended to either use S2 or none.

All my devices I went with no security except my locks which force s0 and I only have two. Some devices don't give you an option.

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Yes, should be avoided, but in this case it would mean buying an extra USB stick to make it possible.
Trying to decide if it's worth it or not

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For what its worth, I think the extra usb stick is worth it as it can be used for other things. I've deleted ghost nodes with mine, excluded stubborn devices (as it is battery operated and I could walk around with it) and have also even used it to update stubborn device firmwares that kept failing with the hub. So maybe you will find more than one use for that extra stick that will make it worth it. I got the Aeotec Z-Stick.

I got my network running perfectly now. But it was a pain in the ■■■ and took a bit of time to get it that way. The Z-Stick did help a lot though.

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12

The Aeon Z-Stick is a good investment. It will work for this purpose and it has an Internal battery and the code to be able to Include and Exclude devices, while mobile. It would be especially good for the task you mention... running around and Excluding the S0 devices. Just Include the Z-Stick into your ZWave network. After, Press and Hold the Z-Stick's button til it blinks/pulses Orange. Then put any device into exclude. The Aeon Z-Stick will blink blue then go back to pulsing orange when the Exclude is successful. Because it's joined to your mesh, it will inform the Hub that the device got excluded.

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The question is if it would really be noticeable to have the devices with no security instead of S0, given my low number of total z wave devices?

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I think the answer is no probably not... however if you start adding devices then maybe? Why not start with a good base and avoid potential future issues?

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Was not aware of the Aeon Z-Stick capabilities, thanks for sharing that information.

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S0 creates about 3 times the traffic. Depending on the device this may not make much difference. A switch in an area that doesn't get used much probably wouldn't matter. A power reporting plug on the other hand could cripple your mesh depending on the frequency. The more devices you have the busier the overall mesh is and the more impactful excessive traffic is. Take an OCD approach to you mesh health by limiting traffic wherever possible and you will have far less issues when the occasional bugs pop up in hub software versions.

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Ok, I ordered the stick after some failed automations last week and it should be arriving Monday.
When including the devices with the stick, using the software recommended above, at what point will I be able to pick between S0 and no security?
Also, if it depends on the software, I believe I will have to keep the stick plugged in to my PC instead of using its built in battery?

Thank you very much.

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You use the software to join the devices, so needs to be plugged in, I didn't find any way to select on mine (I'm sure there is a way) it just always used no security.

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Sounds good, will give it a go.

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Bollocks, I just got my C7 now as I was having issues with some trvs. Was hoping the fibaro issues were sorted by now.