C5 backup

Backup on a C5 hub.

My original C4 hub is my workhorse, but of course there is a problem with backups because some stuff is in the USB dongle.

The C5 has a build in radio and no USB dongle (though I guess you can plug one in). So If I do a backup on a C5 hub, I'm assuming I can do a restore on another C5 hub and have a true backup. Basically duplicating the original C5 hub. Is my thinking good or bad?

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That approach will work for zigbee devices, but not z-wave devices.

I'm in the same position. And I've been slowly migrating from z-wave devices to zigbee devices to make it easier to have a true backup.

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Thanks for the reply. So where are the Zwave devices stored? It would seem logical that if you can backup a C5 to a file, then restore that file later if you have a bad crash that this would be good to go. Good to go without the Zwave devices I guess - that's sure a bummer.

If you restore the backup to a new hub, you'll still have to re-pair Zigbee devices--unless you have an external stick you move, then the coordinator's ID is going to have changed, and Zigbee devices note that when pairing. They'll need to be reset and re-paired to the new hub/coordinator--but the good news is that, unlike Z-Wave, the Hubitat database has everything it needs here, and devices will be recognized and fall right back into place. (There are still some things you'll want to pay attention to. Resetting a Zigbee plug or bulb will erase its group IDs, so if you use Groups and Scenes, go back into any with Group Messaging enabled and click "Done" just to be sure.) Regardless, Zigbee is still relatively easy here.

Z-Wave, as you've heard, is a bit of a mess. The worst case would be needing to re-set/exclude and then (re-)include each Z-Wave device to the new hub/controller. Hubitat will not recognize it as the same Z-Wave device, so it will create a new one you'd have to go out and swap out in all apps and whatnot (but, hey, at least you'd still have something to refer to). Staff are aware of this request, and it's possible we'll see full backup in the future. In the meantime, the external stick is unlikely to die (but so is your hub), and if you have a Z-Stick, Aeon makes software that can backup/restore. There may be similar software for others. And in any case, with an external stick, you can still likely use third-party software that supports the Z-Wave "replace" feature that may make replacing nodes/devices easier--both reasons my main Z-Wave hub has an external stick, despite the fact that I still haven't ever acutally backed it up...you can tell how worried I am, I guess. :slight_smile:

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Thanks for the detailed explanation. Guess for the time being there is no 100% backup. Maybe down the line.

What happens if you use a Y cable on your C5 and use the stick from the C4 and then do a C4 restore on the C5?

This should work. Discussed in this thread:

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So @2ac16mo it may be possible to transfer from a C4 to a C5.

In addition if you buy a Nortek stick (if you are in the US) from Amazon and a Y cable and use that when setting up your C5 you should be able to move to another C5 provided you have a good backup. So there is a way but it costs a bit more and requires a little advanced planning.

Not a complete backup per se but at least a transferable option in case the hub dies.

Disclaimer: I have not yet done this myself so proceed with caution..

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Thanks for that Eric.

Yes, I'm in the USA.

Amazon seems to list more than one Nortek stick:
GoControl CECOMINOD016164 HUSBZB-1 USB Hub
QuickStick Combo, HUSBZB-1, by Nortek, Cert ID: ZC10-15090013
StickZ, HUSBZ-1, by Nortek, Cert ID: ZC10-15070019

Will any of these work, and if I bought a Aeotec Z-Stick Gen5 would that work as well?

I'm getting confused with all the methods I'm reading to do a backup and restore. If I had a Z-stick Gen 5, would I be able to clone my C4 Hubitat Stick onto the Zstick? Would I even want to?

I'm resigning myself to starting over with a C-5 hub and A Zstick in a Y-cable. Probably splitting the load between a couple C5s.

One last thing - would the Nortek provide me anything over the Aeotec?

That sounds very interesting Eric.

Those are questions for @csteele I think - especially about cloning.. The short answer is you can use a Z stick. The only reason I mentioned the Nortek was that's what the C4 uses.

As just a stick connected to a hub there probably isn't much difference. I like the Aeotec as a spare device. It has an internal battery and a switch so you can use it for excluding devices. Just walk up to the device push the button on the stick and do the trigger action on the device you want to exclude and you are done.
Back to an external stick and y cable. Since you already have an external stick with the C4, you should try a backup of the stick. Aeotec have a backup app and there is software from Silabs. The Aeotec software is meant for restoring a backup to a replacement stick. You would have no way at this time to restore it to a C5 hub but a C5 hub with an external stick should be possible.

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Thanks for the post. I think I'll order the Aeotec and locate their software and try to clone my Hubitat stick.

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Let us know how it goes!!

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I will, but it takes me a long time to get things done. Turning 77 this summer and my brain doesn't work like it once did .....lol

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The Aeotec stick, because it has additional functions, may not work well as a backup device. I do not know that it would make a difference but just be aware. You also don't want to have two sticks with the same identity active at the same time.

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My first thought is to clone my C4 stick to the Aeotec. Then power down the C4 and install the Aeotec and see if the C4 runs as with the original stick. If it does, I might then investigate doing a restore of my database to a C5 with the Aeotec stick in the y-cable and the C4 shut down. I have to reread my notes a few times as I go. I know I could possibly try to install my original C4 stick in a C5 with a data restore. As I say I need to reread my notes. Thanks to all who showed an interest in my original question.

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I got my hub as the C-5 came out and had a choice of C-4 or 5. Had I understood then what was possible, I would have either done the C-5 and Y cable or the C-4. I would also have tried just attaching my Z-stick to HE and using the already paired devices.

Good luck. Do update things.

The Aeotek/Aeon Z-Stick works fine as both a primary and secondary controller. It works with the Aeotek Backup software perfectly, as you'd expect. Be very careful to not read more into those words...

If you power down your C-5 and use a Y cable to attach a blank/empty Aeon Z-Stick, you are free to start all over with Including devices.

There's no existing way to 'clone the stick' inside the C-5. Aeon's backup/restore uses the USB interface, not over-the-air.

You can Join a Z-Stick to the C-5's ZWave as a secondary controller and that does copy the existing DB to the Z-Stick. You can then backup the ZStick but it does not provide you with a working Hub the way that a 'clone' would. If you power down the hub and insert the Secondary Controller, the hub is not going to see the ZStick as a clone.

EDIT:
As luck would have it, I just happened to add my ZStick as a secondary to my newest hub, yesterday. I just powered down that hub and inserted the Aeon ZStick via Y adapter. The menu Devices shows the full set of devices, which it should, since that's from the internal H2 DB.

The ZWave Details page however shows just one device... well.. two.. Node 1 and Node 6. I've started a ZWave Repair to see what comes of that, while running ZNiffer.

Have you tried using the Aeotec software to backup a non Aeotec stick and restored it to the Aeotec stick? I really need to get ANOTHER stick and do some of these things.