Best switch for smart bulbs?

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I'm trying to find the ideal switch/dimmer for smart bulbs. The newer Zooz and Innovelli allow you to disable local control so that's obviously important. The Zen 27 dimmers are somewhat annoying in that seem to be a challenge for dimming. I'm looking for button 1 and 2 events preferably with held and released in addition to pushed. That way a button 1 pushed can simply turn it on and the held events used to initiate dimming. Unfortunately the drivers tend to spam dimming levels instead so the Zen 27s that I have in abundance may not be great.
I quickly tried the Zen 26 (on/off) and it reported pushed/held/released which is great so that might be the way to go. I just need to see how it reports an auxiliary switch turning off the light. I'll be testing some Innovelli black dimmers but I think they will be difficult as well.

I have some Sengled zigbee bulbs that seem okay....hopefully changing the color temperature on them doesn't automatically turn them on like Hues used to. That way you can easily issue global color/color temperature changes without having to incorporate multiple modes etc for automations. Anyway anyone else have suggestions for controlling 'smart' bulbs? No local control is important.

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I've used the Inovelli Red Series Switch (LZW30-SN), Dimmer (LZW31-SN), and Fan/Light Combo (LZW36-SN) to control smart bulbs with little problem as long as all options are set correctly. I've also used a Zooz ZEN27 with good results. I'm not sure that the problem you noted with the ZEN27 is still a thing; that was true for its early firmware, but firmware 2.0 changed things so only a single report is sent when the dimming is done (button released).

Personally, for smart bulb control, I like to ignore the switch's built-in "level" entirely and just use the Z-Wave Scene events (button events) on Hubitat to manipulate the bulbs directly. While you can do it the other way with the ZEN27, effectively mirroring the device's internally-tracked level to other devices of your choice, I like to just manipulate the bulbs directly: startLevelChange(up) on a hold of the top paddle, and stopLevelChange() on release, for example. With Sengleds, however, you may want to not do it that way--in my experience, they're less reliable than Hue Bridge bulbs and their levels might get out of sync, plus they will turn off if ramped down too far (and on if off to start), whereas I personally prefer the Bridge behavior. Your preferences, of course, may vary. But both Zooz and Inovelli can be used in the way that I prefer (not sure Inovelli can be used in this "other" way unless your bulbs are Z-Wave and using Association).

The Hue Bridge API does not provide a way to send a color temperature (or color, level, etc.) to any bulb that is off, so Hubitat's Hue Bridge integration--or any, really--won't work the way you want unless it implements some Hubitat-only trickery to try to create the same effect, as I did with "pseudo pre-staging" in CoCoHue.

Many directly-paired Zigbee bulbs, on the other hand, do support an option in the driver called "prestaging." For color or color temperature, you can enable this, and then color/CT commands sent to a bulb that is off will not turn it on; instead, the next time it is turned on, it will turn on to those settings. But the problem here is that many apps are not built to accommodate this. The default behavior is for any "Set Level," "Set Color," or "Set Color Temperature" command to also turn on a bulb if off, so if whatever app you're using doesn't provide a way to explicitly ensure an "On" also gets sent when you want one, it may not work well. In general, I don't recommend the prestaging options (real or pseudo) to people for this reason, but if you are careful about how you set things up, it certainly can work.

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Thanks for the reply. My Zen 27s on 3.x firmware did not appear to send held etc, just on/off and levels (which it spammed). The 26 was way better in that all I had to do was make sure local control was off and -maybe- central scene activated and I received pushed/held/released commands. Again no idea what the auxiliary switch will do. The behaviour of the level changes sounds annoying though, especially if their levels loose sync. Perhaps the group/scenes app can mitgate that (but not the dimming and turning off behaviour). Is there any code available for the Sengled bulbs? I'd love to make the dimming stop at level 1 and not go to zero and power off the bulb.

Regarding the Hues for Smartthings and Hubitat I made my own custom driver that would allow color and level prestaging such that setlevel() etc would check to see if the bulb is on and if not just save the values which would be applied when the bulb is powered on. The Hues seemed to add a lot of latency to my hub so now that I'm at a new house I've been avoiding them. For globally setting color temperature I'd just write an app that would change them (kinda like the old circadian rhythm app) so I wouldn't have to worry about them powering on. I'd like to get my hands on some of Innovelli's Zwave bulbs but they are out of stock everywhere and only the Sengled bulbs are readily available.

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i use these. they dont require a load and have a dimmer as well. so you can write rules based on the switch or dimmer for your bulbs.. that is what i do to control the few strips i have with mutiple hue spotlights.. the strips are wired to stay on all the tiem so the bulbs dont loose power and i use them for automations and the switches to turn off and on.. i also ptu them in a grouping in hubitat and as well use a custom driver i wrote for the switch that also has color and dimmer capability so you can dim or change color on the switch and it gets passed to the bulbs.

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Interesting. I haven't updated mine beyond something in the 2.x firmware, but it doesn't look like they changed much in this regard. I don't remember specifically having to enable scenes/multi-taps, but I suppose I'd look at the parameters in your exact device manual to see for sure. Are you using Hubitat's stock "Zooz Central Scene Dimmer" driver? That's the one they recommend, though any driver that interprets the Z-Wave Central Scene events, like a custom driver you might have been using instead, should also be fine (but the regular switch/dimmer drivers won't).

I've never used it with a remote/aux/add-on switch with smart bulbs, so I don't know how that will work with any configuration. In general, my experience in all cases is that that leaves something to be desired, probably even more so if it only works with a dumb switch (like Zooz), but on Hubitat I'm never too worried about that since I can do pretty much anything and make it work how I want, which usually involves just replacing that switch entirely with a Pico or another smart switch. :slight_smile:

Hubitat Groups don't support startLevelChange() and stopLevelChange() (presumably because there's no guarantee all "member" devices do and even if they did it is unlikely to be implemented the same way across all of them), but other than that, a group would be an easy way to avoid some of those problems. Most stock Hubitat driver code is closed-source, including the Sengled-specific driver. However, it's substantially similar to the "plain" Generic RGBW Bulb driver that is released as an example on Hubitat's GitHub (for the Sengled driver, they added some magic to make on/off work smoother instead of abruptly as it does normally, via a series of basically repeated "Set Level" commands instead; some people actually have better luck not doing this anyway). Alternatively, if you know how to write a Zigbee DTH on ST, it's nearly identical on Hubitat, but that driver would give you a good starting point regardless.

I have a couple I wouldn't mind getting rid of, but if you want to fill your whole house I probably can't help you there... :slight_smile:

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Those accessory switches are better than what I've used in the past. I do like the 3 and 4 way compatible Zooz switches as I only have to rewire one box. I'm the only one who uses dimmers (and when I do it's generally from my phone etc) so having extra dimmers isn't as important. Wish those were available a few years ago!

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So I ran into a show stopper with the Zen series. Even with local control disabled, auxiliary switches will toggle the relay. I was hoping they would just send on and off commands. In my opinion that is a huge oversight. When I get around to installing an Innovelli black series device I'll see if it does the same.

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That's good to know! I think I remember the same issue with the Inovellis, but I might be confusing the two. In any case, with Hubitat, there's no need to limit yourself to what the switch manufacturer allows for multi-way switches: use any Hubitat-compatible button device, and you can set it up however you want. My favorite are Lutron Picos (cheap but high startup cost for the Smart Bridge Pro or Main Repeater if you don't already have it), but a variety of other devices will do, too--including another smart switch if you're capable of installing it in that location (generally line and neutral would be needed, which you won't always have at all three-way locations, but you might be able to rig something up if you don't since you wouldn't need all three of the non-neutral wires like you would for a "real" three-way).

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In previous homes I've used virtually every type of accessory switch imaginable, even Lutron Picos (I have a box full of maybe 40 of them). My wife -hated- how nothing matched and she was apprehensive I'd do the same to our new home. Keeping the existing switches for 3 ways helped. Using regular 'dumb' LED bulbs is easy to do with the Zen series, but my last house had over 150 Hue bulbs and I became accustomed to their smooth transitions and color temperature changing ability. Okay for a while power outages SUCKED (3 young children). As I was typing this the power went out lol. Figures. Kids all asleep and I just cracked open a beer. So much for installing one of the Innovelli lights tonight!

Unless the issue of remote switches and the Zen/Innovelli switches can be resolved I'll likely just limit smart bulbs to areas not utilizing 3 and 4 way lights. Maybe it is something that can be addressed by new firmware...who knows!

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OK I give up on the so-called smart bulbs. They are anything but! I've swallowed my pride and ordered another Hue hub and some bulbs. I really wanted to avoid having another hub but hopefully CoCo hue works out!

My recommendations for switches for 'smart' or Hue bulbs:

Zooz Zen 21 (at least 3.0 preferably 4.0) On/Off switch

With this switch you can disable local control but still receive on/off notifications if it is in a 3 way circuit. The wiring isn't as ideal as the Zen 26--you need to rewrite the remote switches unlike with the Zen26. You can use Zen 26 On/Off for single pole installations too but if you use it in a 3 way the remote will toggle the relay even when local control is disabled.

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You have any plans for all those Picos?

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No plans..just have to find them. Want them?

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I don’t know that I need 40, but I’d definitely be interested in taking some of them off your hands @drsprange!

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