Basic Rule not working, but can turn manually

fenderman86 · January 21, 2022, 10:32pm

i have a super simple rule, patio lights turn on at sunset and off at 8:30, but it doesn't work.

I have a rule that uses a motion detector to turn on the lights if between certain times....that one works just fine.

here's the patio lights info. When i added it, it would just sit initializing forever, had to go into the zwave settings and push it along, just fyi

What am i doing wrong?

bertabcd1234 · January 21, 2022, 11:26pm

A few suggestions, since it's not apparent that anything is wrong from your screenshots:

Turn on logging for the Basic Rule, then look in "Logs" (past logs if you don't already have them open at the scheduled time) when you expect something to happen. This will tell you what the app thinks it's doing and when.
You alluded to this but just to make sure: do the "on" and "off" commands consistently work from the device page? (The fact that the Simple Automation Rule works suggests yes, but worth asking...)
Try going into the Basic Rule and hitting "Done," just to re-initialize things. If you care to check, the App Status (gear icon) page for the rule should have a scheduled job at sunset or 8:30 PM, depending on where you are in the execution. Hitting "Done" will start over with the sunset thing, so you should at least have something scheduled there after doing that.

fenderman86 · January 22, 2022, 3:07am

Ok.
I enabled logging. How do I view them?

I'm getting some strange behavior out of the patio lights. I'm turning them on manually now, and they turn themselves off by themselves.

It has done this before, I even swapped out the outdoor switch and it's still doing it.

bertabcd1234 · January 22, 2022, 3:15am

Logs are found under "Logs" on the left-side menu. You must have had logging enabled before the expected events happened, otherwise nothing would have been logged yet. This page defaults to the "Current" logs tab, which update in real time but require you to have already have the page open before the expected log entry is made. You can view recent log history from the "Past" logs tab. So, try either one, depending on when you open the page. Logs can be filtered to just entries for a specific app or device by clicking the app or device name in the list above just above the log entries themselves (or the app or device ID in blue to the left of any log entry).

fenderman86 · January 22, 2022, 7:36pm

I took a peek at the Past Logs for Patio Lights, should there really be that many repetitive turn off of the lights?

dev:432022-01-22 11:24:02.204 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 11:24:02.202 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 11:23:49.454 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 11:23:49.452 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 11:23:29.338 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 11:23:29.336 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 11:23:28.362 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 11:23:28.343 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 11:05:44.117 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 11:05:44.115 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 11:05:30.491 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 11:05:30.468 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 10:51:55.606 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 10:51:55.595 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 10:36:25.664 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 10:36:25.662 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 10:36:09.932 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 10:36:09.930 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 10:35:57.172 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 10:35:57.170 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 10:35:56.581 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 10:35:56.572 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 10:16:01.497 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 10:16:01.495 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 10:15:46.055 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 10:15:46.053 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 10:15:43.825 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 10:15:43.823 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 10:15:27.853 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 10:15:27.851 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 10:15:11.374 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 10:15:11.372 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 10:15:09.869 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 10:15:09.867 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 10:15:08.514 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 10:15:08.487 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 09:19:54.297 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 09:19:54.295 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 09:19:52.371 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 09:19:52.369 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 09:19:51.259 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 09:19:51.257 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 09:19:49.278 am infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-22 09:19:49.252 am infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-22 06:33:16.643 am infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-22 06:33:16.629 am infoPatio Lights was set to 68

dev:432022-01-22 06:27:44.735 am infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-22 06:27:44.716 am infoPatio Lights was set to 41

dev:432022-01-22 06:19:22.268 am infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-22 06:19:22.239 am infoPatio Lights was set to 63

dev:432022-01-22 05:53:46.588 am infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-22 05:53:46.585 am infoPatio Lights was set to 33

dev:432022-01-22 05:51:17.258 am infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-22 05:51:17.239 am infoPatio Lights was set to 60

dev:432022-01-22 05:38:10.939 am infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-22 05:38:10.937 am infoPatio Lights was set to 99

dev:432022-01-22 05:37:59.522 am infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-22 05:37:59.501 am infoPatio Lights was set to 99

dev:432022-01-21 08:07:35.933 pm infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-21 08:07:35.927 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-21 08:02:05.633 pm infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-21 08:02:05.631 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-21 08:02:03.515 pm infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-21 08:02:03.509 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-21 06:44:43.633 pm infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-21 06:44:43.630 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 22

dev:432022-01-21 06:44:43.209 pm infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-21 06:44:43.190 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 41

dev:432022-01-21 06:41:42.166 pm infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-21 06:41:42.154 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 68

dev:432022-01-21 06:23:10.324 pm infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-21 06:23:10.322 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 99

dev:432022-01-21 06:23:09.203 pm infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-21 06:23:09.201 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 99

dev:432022-01-21 06:23:06.742 pm infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-21 06:23:06.714 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 99

dev:432022-01-21 06:21:41.724 pm infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-21 06:21:41.721 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-21 06:21:40.367 pm infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-21 06:21:40.341 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-21 06:00:09.402 pm infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-21 06:00:09.400 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 99

dev:432022-01-21 06:00:08.370 pm infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-21 06:00:08.367 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 99

dev:432022-01-21 06:00:05.618 pm infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-21 06:00:05.611 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 99

dev:432022-01-21 05:56:11.837 pm infoPatio Lights was turned off

dev:432022-01-21 05:56:11.834 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 0

dev:432022-01-21 05:15:09.253 pm infoPatio Lights was turned on

dev:432022-01-21 05:15:09.232 pm infoPatio Lights was set to 99

bertabcd1234 · January 22, 2022, 7:41pm

Those are device logs, which shows what the device reports back to the hub (or really for info logs, if/how the driver chooses to interpret that information). It does not show what was sent to the device in most cases. These may be helpful, but they aren't the app logs I suggested above, which will likely still be helpful for troubleshooting your particular issue.

That being said, if the device is not actually doing what the logs suggest it is doing, that could still be a problem. Have you looked into that? If so, what device (brand/model) and driver is this, and what happens around these events if you also enable debug logging? That provides more information about what's coming from the device.

fenderman86 · January 22, 2022, 7:50pm

Ok, i'll have to watch the page closer to sunset when its supposed to turn on, or when i turn it on manually because it doesn't turn on by itself.

I was using a 1st gen GE/Jasco switch that was doing the same thing, i thought it was faulty, so i found an inexpensive replacement thinking that would fix it.
This is the one i picked up:

It looks like a generic driver

Edit: on an amazon review, a person said to use the EVA LOGIK Smart Plug for the driver....i'll give that a try.

tony.fleisher · January 22, 2022, 11:45pm

I didn't see any explanation of what "it doesn't work" means here.
Does the light not turn on at sunset? Does it not turn off at 8:30? Do you have several different conflicting rules controlling these lights?

fenderman86 · January 23, 2022, 12:32am

i should have clarified. Yes, it does not turn on at sunset and off at 830pm. If i manually turn them on via the dahsboard, they will turn themselves off.

I only have one other rule using the Patio Lights, it uses a motion detector to turn them on starting at 9pm and dissables at sunrise. that rule works perfectly. I'll take the dogs out at 530am and the motion detector picks my up and turns on the Patio Lights

fenderman86 · January 23, 2022, 1:19am

So sunset just hit, and it looks like the driver change works! The lights turned on.

Was watching the logs as it happend

fenderman86 · January 23, 2022, 1:45am

I stand corrected, lights just turned off my themselves

Here's the other app with the motion sensor

tony.fleisher · January 23, 2022, 5:37pm

The logs you posted dont seem to show the lights turning off. Is this occurring with no logs on the hub? Why do you think the lights turning off is related to the sunset until 8:30pm rule?

fenderman86 · January 23, 2022, 6:00pm

Yeah, i didn't see the lights going off in the logs, but they definately went off. I saw a bunch of motion detecor pings, but nothing that said it turned th lights off. I'm not sure its related to the sunset rule, but might be the use motion detector after 9pm rule, so i went ahead and Paused the motion detector rule, I'll see tonight after sunset to see if they stay on then i'll know its the motion detector rule.

fenderman86 · January 24, 2022, 3:00pm

So last night everything went according to plan. Lights turned on at sunset and off at 8:30pm, so this leads me to believe that its the other rule is the one turning the lights off.
Anyone know why this would turn the lights off randomly?

bertabcd1234 · January 24, 2022, 5:20pm

As written, that Motion Lighting instance will turn the lights off any time Patio Motion Detector stays inactive for 5 minutes. It will also turn the bulbs on when the sensor becomes active if it's between 9 PM and sunrise, but this does not affect turning them off. If you want to restrict when they are turned off, you will need to choose the appropriate restrictions under "Options for Additional Sensors, Lights-Off and Off Options." Each half of the automation has its own set of options, allowing for arbitrary flexibility.

Does that explain what you see? If not, I see you have logging for this app enabled, so "Logs" should also show you something at whenever it does something. Again, you'd be looking for app logs, not device logs, though the device logs will show you what ultimately happened or at least what the device says happened (just not why).

fenderman86 · January 24, 2022, 5:40pm

Ohhhhh.....thanks for the clarification, this is starting to make sense.
Ultimately, between 9:00pm and sunrise, i want the motion detector to turn on the lights for 5 min and then turn them off (if i need to take the dogs out in the middle of the night).
What do i put under "options for additional sensors, lights-off and off options". Right now, i just have "minutes for delay before turning off" set to 5.

bertabcd1234 · January 24, 2022, 5:43pm

Sounds like you want "Don't turn off between two times."

fenderman86 · January 24, 2022, 6:33pm

starting to get confused again.....
I have another rule that turns on the lights from sunset to 8:30pm (thats when i noticed the motion detector rule was turning the lights off), would i set the "Don't turn off between two times." to sunset to 8:30pm?

bertabcd1234 · January 24, 2022, 6:39pm

The restrictions in each Motion Lighting app are specific to that instance of the app. They do not affect (or even know about) settings you have configured in a different instance of Motion Lighting.

So, in your case, I think that sounds correct--assuming that you want the other rule, not this one, to handle turning off the light during that time, according to however you've configured that other rule to do so.

fenderman86 · January 24, 2022, 6:58pm

Ok, i set the "Don't turn off between two times." to Sunrise to 9:00 pm, hopefully that will work