Anyone know what I'm doing wrong here - simple automation?

Bingo. I don't know why the ST integration with Hue was different. I ran HE for a while but ditched it before I started adding Hue devices.

Here's my strategy... I have a Philips Hue hub, a Lutron Pro hub, a Bond hub, and three HEs, plus Alexa integration. One HE provides all the integration, and the various hubs and services are integrated only with that primary HE. If I want Alexa to turn on and off a Hue light or a Lutron switch or a fan, the command goes from Alexa to HE, which then sends it to the appropriate secondary hub. All of my sensors are paired with that primary HE and the HE runs all rules. The one exception is a couple of simple Alexa routines more to provide work-arounds for Alexa limitations, but they all end up triggering actions based on HE rules. Gets rid of the whole sync issue and the delay issues too.

Not sure about your simple rule... honestly I don't ever use it. But it certainly looks fine.

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Thanks for the tip - the issue that I have with this particular automation is that the all the zigbee relay devices are integrated into the hue hub and synced with Hubitat - so everything starts with hue. I.e. when someone presses the switch, that updates the Hue hub, then Hubitat has to wait until it polls to get its state - and my tests have been showing that this could be 5mins later even if polling is set to 1min or 30seconds - absolutely no idea why.

So outside of unpairing everything with the hue hub and putting it all directly into Hubitat (which would be a nightmare as the implants are above lights, behind walls etc.) I'm not sure what other options I have. Maybe I'll move it all into an Alexa routine as the hue/alexa updates are almost instant, but this then means a lot of messing around with a ton of virtual switches to add humidity level conditions etc. Ugh.. silly me for thinking this would be easy - open to any other ideas!

EDIT a re-boot has sorted the delayed polling, but it is still too long at 1min or 30secs and I don't want to reduce it following reports of problems

I would seek the advice of others, but...

In the mean time are your relays these guys? They're on the HE compatibility list but I'd be concerned if they are something else that is NOT... or at least do a lot of testing before you start opening up walls.

Yes, looks as though that is the generic on/off (SM308) switch (albeit for an earlier model), there would need to be a dimming handler as well for the SM309 too, which I'd guess there would be...

I have some spares I could also test with first - just wish there was a simpler solution. Just realised I can't go the Alexa routine way either, because it would make no difference as the particular hue hub that has these switches is integrated via Hubitat into Alexa - not directly with Alexa/hue as you can only do that with one Hub (my other one) at this point in time. Nightmare...

There is a community-supported app called HubConnect which allows you to integrate ST and HE. I know there have been some changes on the ST side with support for some of the IDE going away, not sure if it will be a viable solution. But it might buy you some time.

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One other thought, do you use Webcore? Does the 'refresh state' action work? I heard that it didn't, but I could be wrong - if it does, I could just add a 'refresh' command into the piston that could work...

I used webcore when I was on ST and for a couple months on HE but I weaned myself from it and finally broke down and tackled RM.

FYI - I found the automation problem - 'main bathroom' is actual a group that includes the automation trigger - bathrooom fan, which obviously messes everything up. I should have included 'main bathroom lights' instead. My bad.

However, the polling problem seems unresolvable given how I have things setup. Even if I reduce the hue hub polling to its lowest level, that's still a potential 10 second wait for a reaction. It would be great if Hubitat could explore further to find a resolution akin to what Smartthings has, where a change in the hue app or via Alexa is reflected almost imediately in ST.

I think I have a solution for you that may work. There's a community-supported Hue integration called CoCoHue written by @bertabcd1234. It allows you to set a polling interval as short as 10 seconds, and you could modify the code to go even shorter, though I bet that would lead to other consequences. I tagged Robert to ask and also to see if maybe he has other suggestions for you.

BTW he reports in another link the poll vs push is a limitation of Hue. ST also polls - just much more aggressively.

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You could try the following community Hue integration by @armand , which I believe has been updated recently to use Hue's new local API which supports instant status updates.

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Wow even better. I didn't know about that one.

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@mabstrategy - You might also want to check out CoCoHue by @bertabcd1234. It may also have support for the new Hue local instant status update API.

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If I end up needing an app that is overly aggressive at polling or excessively chatty I will offload it to a secondary hub to free up my primary hub. If you find one of these new Hue integrations bogs down the hub that may be a good option for you.

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This looks great - I'm currently using CoCo, so haven't witnesssed the local API implemented yet - perhaps it is in BETA?

I will however, try the Advanced Integration as it does sound like exactly what I need. Many thanks!

Yup! But available via github.

The polling is rather intensive which is what drove me to write the advanced hue bridge integration app. It allow for a refresh plot individual groups and bulbs. This per device refresh helps keep jSON parsing to a minimum so the system can be free to deal with other things.

Over time, the hue hub 2.0 spec was released, which enables the hue hub to notify client apps when changes occur. It is not perfect but it is much better and far more responsive since the Ingres events require no polling to work.

The trade off between our 3rd party apps is that we cannot integrate our hue bulbs as HE hue bulbs, as such, the Alexa integration (for example) has hue specific logic which does not apply for our devices.

Additionally, our apps have support things that the HE does not, like scenes. With scenes, on HE, each bulb is commanded one after the other. With our hue scenes, there is on command to the group or zone and that command is to activate the hue scene. This enables a more organic feel, and lets the hue hub do what it was made to do.

The hue hub has a hard limit to how many commands it can process. If I remember correctly, that is 3 groups / second or 10 bulbs / second. So, if you have a large HE scene, you cannot put more than 3 groups or 10 bulbs in the scene, doing so can result in delayed operations or failed operations -/ another reason I wrote my integration.

@bertabcd1234 and I collaborated on the effort to enable hue event stream on Hubitat, and our products seem to be very similar. I have not used his. I believe either will prove to be a better overall experience than the native driver if you have a desire to use hue button controllers/dimmers, motion sensors, etc, or want to do away with polling.

With the event stream solution we implement, you get the added bonus of being able to use hue automations, and having the HE hub kept up to date of the changes as they occur.

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Thanks! @mabstrategy this sounds like a viable option.

Armand, is the Hue Hub 2.0 spec merely a spec or is it also different HW?

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They all be use the local API, HE, CoCo Hue, and Advanced Hue Bridge. What is different is that HE is Hue API v1, and ours are Hue API v1/v2 hybrid — moving to full v2.

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New software. V1 will be dead in about a year. Hue has already started deprecating some v1 functionality. If it lives longer than that, it would seem to be due to delays in productivity due to COVID.

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