And here comes another "standard" wireless protocol

So are Amazon really going to try and get everyone to shift to "their" platform ??

You know I gotta post this


No way they will achieve half a mile range with the 900mhz frequency on a battery powered device.

This made me laugh, its so true

Ha, the tool-tip text aged well. Are we using USB-C now? :laughing: (And let's not get started on what they're calling the standards that work on these--or now older--ports...)

Seems unlikely to me, too, at least in populated areas, but some Walkie Talkies work around that frequency too and get even greater range, albeit with presumably much larger antennas and bigger batteries. (This might be like saying Zigbee can get multiple miles...if you're using an Xbee Pro on both ends.) It sounds a bit similar to Z-Wave but with an apparently higher hop limit (if that's what extends the maximum distance here) and without Amazon needing to worry about buying the chips or being certified for compliance. :slight_smile: (In related news, they joined the Zigbee Alliance earlier this year, so hopefully they don't give up on or get anti-competitive with that. Lutron--who I trust a lot more--did too, and they already have ClearConnect, so I guess this isn't necessarily bad...)

The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from!

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  1. 900 MHz will (in theory) do the range if the band-width is small enough.
  2. The 900 MHz could be used as a common transport for multiple protocols (z-wave, zigbee, ethernet).
  3. The device hardware would have to be re-designed for the new transmitter OR a bridge would have to be placed at the "service point". In either case, it is feasible to still use the zigbee/zwave protocols at the new frequency.
  4. The WiFi device problem still remains. There are few common, non-proprietary standards for smart home devices over IP. There are some UPnP protocols (i.e., media renderer) but surely no widely accepted standards with associated certification methods.

The value of the new standard is how it will handle legacy devices on legacy standards and how expensive it is to convert devices to the new standard (and if the cost meets the price targets for the device). We are looking at first devices in two years and meeting a product volume threshold in 4 - 5 years.

Evidence shows 900mhz can propagate through trees and buildings at no more than 1/2 mile. The performance was noticeably degraded when compared to an LOS.

On the other hand, a single obstruction (like a single stand of trees) over that distance and it passes through and can continue on for several miles, very very well.

The main problem I see is attenuation. All of that said, it's a superior frequency for such an application.

Not on a battery powered device that lasts 2 years before needing charged/replaced.

I was just going to post that Andrew Tanenbaum quote!! Damn, beat me to it! :cry:

The success of Amazon's sidewalk will have little to do with its technical capabilities and everything to do with market penetration. If it functions as reliably as zwave that will easily be good enough. Amazon definitely has a marketing plan to penetrate the home automation/security market. I think they had a good look at it and realized that devices operating around 900 mhz (as opposed to wi-fi or 5G) is the way to go. Probably didn't want to pay licensing fee's to Zwave so they came up with their own.

Ease of use, set-up, and easy device integration will be the selling points. Samsung will lose this battle and time will tell which of the big players (amazon or google) end up with the majority of cloud connected smart-homes. Amazon and/or Google are the biggest threat to smart-things and will eventually be its demise.

Hubitat is unique in offering a hub that doesn't need the cloud for most of its functionality. This will always appeal to a portion of the population. IF Sidewalk, (or whatever standard) becomes the defacto standard for amazon, those devices will have price points that are unbeatable. It will be very enticing to buy a 900 mhz smart-switch from amazon for under 10 bucks, hopefully, if this happens, (big IF) Hubitat can support the standard, so my device purchase price can drop by over half.

My device purchase price has already dropped to 1/10th of what it was by Hubitat implementing Iris V1 device support. A year and a half ago I was paying around $50 per contact sensor now you can pick the Iris V1's up on ebay for about $4-$5 each.

Agreed, I just picked up 8 of them myself, integrated top notch. Placed 4 Ikea outlets ($10) as repeaters since I have a MUCH stronger zwave mesh than zigbee. But I am considering this the exception to the rule, I can only find the device and price on ebay. I wonder if the ebay devices are currently being manufactured and sold or if they are just dumping old stock from the demise of Iris. Be interesting to see how many Iris V1 contact sensors you can buy on ebay 18 months from now.

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And if you ever decide to move away from hubitat you will have to replace all of those devices since they are not supported on any other platform. That is the only reason why I have stayed away from Iris V1 stuff. But if you're looking for cheap you can't beat em.

They are not.

Yes....this. There is no Iris anymore. Why would they be making devices for a platform that isn't being sold anymore?

So then I'm literally out the cost of 1 regular contact sensor by having to replacing 10. I'll take my chances as the cost/benefit analysis is on my side, not to mention that if Hubitat can adopt the V1 devices into it's platform. Any other platform "could" do it also if the demand is high enough.

Absolutely. But it is something to keep in mind when buying devices, that's all.

Could but not very likely since they aren't making new iris V1 stuff and haven't for quite a number of years now.

Hubitat's announcement of the inclusion of these came upon the announcement of Iris shutting down, they weren't making any new iris v1 stuff then either.

And now even more time has passed since the shutdown of Iris. Do you think the odds of another company investing time and energy to integrate these devices has gone up or down?

More, as noted by the ebay sales of these devices means there are far MORE not less consumers who now have and are using these devices that would be asking for their implementation. I for one never owned a single Iris device prior to this now I have 37, and there are hundreds of people on this platform who did the same.

The reason they are so cheap is because they don't work on any other platform. If another platform was going to integrate them, it would only have made sense to do when there were new customers to "scoop up" with the closing of Iris. Just like Hubitat did.

We'll just have to agree to disagee.

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