Just to clarify any misunderstanding with this, I assume you mean ONLY when defining/editing/deleting pistons as the pistons run on the HE hub locally not in the cloud. 
2 Likes
I sort of avoided the WebCore comparison because it addresses some but (as you said) not all these issues. Plus it’s definitely not on Hubitat’s party invite list.
I was trying to promote RM as an existing asset to consider a new UI (via an already available code base upgrade inclusion) and with that clearer understanding and accessibility to more users.
But of course, I agree with everything you say.
Why don't they or are they not interested in doing that?
Why??
I was told long ago that ANY question beginning with "Why don't THEY..." has a single answer: Money.
Hubitat is building little Hub gizmos.. There's no place for an external gizmo in that scenario. They don't want to Host the App, with GIGs of storage forever, so that people can 'recover/exchange' code for the tiny percentage interested.
I'm suggesting: for those of us that already are on the corner at the intersection of NodeJS server and Performance, we'd find an attractive alternative. No one else would.
2 Likes
Congrats on an interesting topic, I’m slightly aware that I veered it off topic.
So to answer the topic title I would say ‘Yes’. If you are a power user and also feel technically happy with setting up NodeRED and learning how to use it .. go for it , It is truly eye opening in what it allows you to do and very rewarding once you tame it.
Learning to use these new ‘components’ is one of the great pleasures I get from HA. By learning, I only mean enough to use them for my purposes, not anything in depth at all.
3 Likes
I do think it is of interest to many. But only a solution for techies.
I think many of us are trying to make things work the best they can given the hardware and software at hand. So Node Red, MQTT, and other things are of interest if they can truly make things "better" and easier, or more efficient in some way.
Having to setup a server, and build flows, and everything associated with that is time consuming. If things add time and complication to the setup, it isn't helping most users. When you have two or more systems to troubleshoot and maintain, that also isn't helping the average user.
I would love to be able to sit and learn all this stuff, but having to work, cook, clean, do laundry, and everything else cuts into free time. I am lucky to have a flexible work schedule and no kids, but even then time is short sometimes. If my Hubitat works fine, but might be 100ms slower than using NR, then who cares. Maybe I would feel different if my hub didn't work consistently, and maybe that is the bigger issue here. If Hubitat is slowing down or crashing for that many, then it is something that needs to be addressed. I realize that is a complex thing to diagnose and collect data for, but there must be some way to get to the bottom of how this happens for some users.
4 Likes
I don't consider myself a "techie". Not here. Not with groovy. I am an enthusiast.
I do it because it's fun. And gives me something to learn and sometimes write about. But I consider home automation a hobby. So, yah, making it better is on my mind, but making it cool. Now, that's where I'm headed.
2 Likes
Most relevant comment in this thread !
My 4 hubs all work fine too , but very few RM rules - and also very few Z devices
That looks far better in a profile I think !
I feel like you've just reiterated a point here with that statement.
3 Likes
@april.brandt
you're right - it's the elephant in the room
2 Likes
@april.brandt nailed it I do this because its fun. node red expands the possibilities and learning it is fun.
I don't do this professionally and honestly folks automating off on switches isn't world changing I do it because its fun and then justify by saying how much it improved my quality of life 
4 Likes
Reading some of these responses brings another question to mind...
Does anybody who's made the move to NR actually find it more difficult to learn than RM?
Let's use a simple if-elseif scenario.
With RM you need to build the conditions and click through each piece with multiple page reloads, etc...
In NR you drag out a switch node and drag a line to connect it to your trigger.
To me.... even the most basic of automations are easier to learn and build in node red when comparing to rule machine. But I read a whole lot of "node red is for the more techie people" which really leaves me wondering why that thought is there?
1 Like
Sometimes NodeRED flows are tidy and neat , but... here's my 7 segment decoder flow ! Am I proud ... no ! Do I love spaghetti ? Yes especially bolognaise.
This was just to get an "I'm heating the house" "I'm heating your hot water" - "I'm doing nothing" output from my boiler (furnace) ! In a weeks time will I stand a chance sorting out a bug ? P.S someone please tell me there's now a 7segment decoder node.
Plus once you've coded a lot of flows in NodeRED - maybe 100, try sorting that out - separate tabs or not - you don't have the integrated logging that NR had... It can get messy very easily and if you use function nodes, obtusely so.
Solution ? Not overly sure but for me it's just putting everything into MQTT (as an independent
standard integration) and storing / triggering from there and then I feel I'm independent of HE and HA / HR / OH / xAP / Fibaro* / Devolo / Domoticz / CQC / MainLobby/ xLobby / HomeSeer / Vera / SmartThings etc. I then automate what happens via MQTT with a chosen engine - likely NodeRED but my hardware controller doesn't matter, that's my future proof comforter.
The other, not so separating usage would be using the HE NodeRED nodes because I then worry NoderRED is tied to HE. I have tried to avoid that in general but I still use the HE NR nodes for lots of things as I do HA NodeRED nodes.
2 Likes
No, both are pretty easy to learn. I've gone down the rabbit hole of Node Red and previously Rule Machine. The other day I decided to build a rule in Rule Machine. I've not been using Rule Machine for coming up to 6 months now. It wasnt hard to remember the in's and out's of Rule Machine. And for that particular use case, I think Rule Machine was better. But that's rare.
For me, I need to see examples. And the documentation in Rule Machine is, or was lacking. The documentation in Node Red isnt much better, but this forum is amazing, as I've mentioned previously. Over on the Node Red forums, the most common response is: go read the documention.
I'm no techy, but I would say like April, I'm an enthuasist.
2 Likes
OMG! I go away for 3 hrs. and then find myself WAY behind!
This topic has provided me SO much insight on the products, services, use cases employed by others that it is at the top of my list of bookmarks. Great stuff!
@shaneb, I understand that this has ballooned way beyond your question but I tip my hat because you asked it.
3 Likes
My approach is don't rely on any vendor. Been there, done that. Adopt (at least) one controller manufacturer or software creator for the current implementation but be cognisant you may 'have' to switch for many reasons that crop up in their evolution and not necessarily yours.
Realise that their change is based on their aspirations and their company pressures. some products do not have these considerations and are 'open source' intents. Some of HE's closed source approach dissappoints me.
Build a system that can adapt to that change with minimal change and maximum flexibility in your own setup.
Back a manufacturer who has 'soul' and HE has this in abundance, but there are other more practical needs to keep the operation viable.
edit: I am not knocking Hubitat in any way, well not in this post ! But they are a commercial entity and have to evolve in a profitable way or disappear. They are one of my two controllers that I believe in currently because they allow me to implement almost whatever I want.. and quickly. Kudos to that.
3 Likes
Now that you bring that up, there's that thing of your favorite development packing up and leaving. I've seen it before. Then what happens to the automation that contributed to the community? That leaves too and we're high and dry/ There are lots of reasons to go with native, and normally, I follow that guideline just because it's the path of least resistance. I have the same rules disabled in Rule Machine as I have active in Node red. Who knows where that will lead. I do know that if something happened, I'd be able to move over fairly quickly.
[edit]
but I'll still actively learn and implement new things. The important stuff will still run.
I feel let down by many that I bought into and believed in or depended upon, ,.. selfish I know.
Stringify, Google, Nest, SmartThings, IFTT in not improving their speed, Conrad Connect for going chargeable in an impractical way, Cloud services being closed by companies who then effectively disable your product..
Sorry if my previous post appears 'pompous' .. I just believe in HA and adopting it in the most practical way, I was just told it did. Too much Shiraz ...
2 Likes
Here's you saying... whatever it is you were saying ... but here's me saying ... "ah ... you a$$ you only posted part of your flow! Why are your LED's unknown? Where is your boolean logic? Have you tried bool-gate? What's the output look like?"
[edit]
Not enough shiraz
2 Likes
