Adding Devices - Perpetual Initializing

🛎️ Get Help
1

Morning everyone,

I was messing with my Kwikset locks yesterday (had some questions in a different thread.) and ultimately removed a few of them and a few switches at the same time.

Now I can't seem to add them back... Out of the several I removed for my project, I have only been able to add back in one switch and one lock... And that took multiple tries...

The hub hangs on "initializing" and never completes the add... I have waited minutes, hours, rebooted the hub, moved it closer, farther, tried different browsers, did factory resets multiple times on the devices, and still no luck...

Also, sometimes when I have abandoned the add, and try again, I get two or three instances of the device all saying "initializing".

Finally, every time I try to add the device again, its incrementally moving the device ID number up. None of these "attempts" have resulted in any new devices in my device list, but I fear they are sitting somewhere occupying that ID...

I even did a database restore from the previous day to see if I could eliminate those phantom missing IDs and start over... That database restore is what seemed to allow me to add the two devices I was able to add back in, but then everything came to a halt...

Also, the incremental numbers started where I had left off, even though I had "restored" the database...

Help! Is my database corrupt? Is the device now messed up? I really hate to say it, but I have thought about removing all 160 devices and starting over with a reset... God I hope that is not what I have to do...

2

You didn't come right out and say it, but you're describing a normal ZWave Join. There's a Zwave controller in the Hub and it does 90% of the Join function. It picks the next available network number, for example. An attempted Join occupies a device ID, it may ultimately be unsuccessful but the number is used during the process. 232 devices are possible with ZWave and when you use the last number, the controller will wrap and start re-using the numbers that are empty. In other words, it's not an actual problem.

The Hub gets in on the Join act for that initialize bit where it is actually interogating the joining device for all the details about what it is. Decisions about what Hub Driver to use, for example, is part of what is occurring. In response, the selected driver will then output it's standard config so that the device and the driver are in sync with regards to various features... Momentary switch or toggle, would be a good example. However, battery devices have been known to go to sleep in the interval. Locks are certainly large battery users and thus are also very eager to go to sleep. It will not always help, but if you have a battery device and initialize hangs, give the battery device a "click" to wake it. (** not all devices wake with a click, I use the term as shorthand for "do what the device needs to wake again.") It may complete the Initialize.. it has for me 3-4 times, just enough that I'm willing to suggest it. The 2nd and more obvious reason is the mesh/radio strength. If it's too weak to join, it'll be too weak to work reliably too. Locks, especially modern ones want 'beamers' (beaming compatible) to work in parallel to the Hub to get the lock to converse. All AC powered devices are repeaters, and the majority are also 'beamers' but you need one in the path between the hub and the device. A lot of people put them close to the Lock, but that proximity isn't the critical element. "in the path" is the critical element. Since we don't have "RF Goggles" to observe the mesh, you may want to experiment with placement of the beaming device.

I only have one lock and it gave me hell when I first tried to get it to Join. Then suddenly it worked flawlessly. I attribute it to a 'beamer' that was in the mesh in one spot and then 'healed itself' into a better place in the mesh.

Locks go to sleep very quickly and when they do wake, it's for the shortest allowed time, I suspect. The result is that the Hub may not be fast enough in responding to that tiny window. 'Beamers' on the other had, pretty much dedicate themselves to the job of seeing the lock awake and squirting out a message to the lock saying "The hub wants your attention." The lock then stays away for a much longer time.

Lastly, the Hub has a clean up task it runs to remove 'orphaned' device slots in the radio 'stick' portion, insuring that the next time the ID rolls past 232, the empty slots are empty.

2 Likes
3

Awesome... Thank you for the info! I read somewhere about a nightly cleanup? Is that correct? Also, I have been reading about the beaming vs repeating... I have a ton of permanently mounted switches and outlets. They are all GE devices... Some at Z-Wave original and some Z-Wave Plus... How do I determine if they are beaming?

I will try manipulating the locks during the inclusion process... To see if that keeps it awake long enough...

One part of confusion on my side. I hit the add device and hit the button on the device itself... Instantly, the hub sees it and starts the initializing... Over on the hub, the countdown timer starts and comes down from 60-0... Do I need to restart the searching on the hub? Or does it look like the lock is what is timing out...

4

Ok, I believe I have something wrong with my hub... I recently updated a bunch of older z-wave outlets and switches to z-wave plus. At the same time, I updated the radios in my kwikset locks...

I thought this was a problem with the locks, but it is with EVERY device I try to add... I can exclude devices just fine... But, I have dimmers, outlets, switches, plugins and the locks and every singe one times out on initializing.

From pulling my hair out and reading through the posts here, I tried something and it has worked about 90% of the time...

I hit start pairing, hit the button on the device and instantly it is recognized and starts "initializing" with an ID.

The 60 seconds counts down and everything stops at "0". No amount of waiting completes the pairing...

This is a relatively new thing since moving to Hubitat... For months, my hub worked perfect and I converted a bunch of devices over from Iris.

I have about 160 devices on my system. For a few months I had a good combo of about half older and half new z-wave plus devices.. I decided to replace my older devices to improve reporting... The older devices were beginning to frustrate me.

I purchased new devices and began converting them over... Recently in the last week or so is when this started happening...

HERE IS MY FIX: But its not a real fix and I'm asking the Hubitat GODS to weigh in..

If I wait until the last second of the 60 second countdown and hit restart on the timer (another 60 seconds), about 90% of the time, the device finishes "initializing" and provides the prompt to name it... Its like the momentary restart triggers something... Sometimes I have to hit the button again on the device also... Other times, I have to start the whole process over from the beginning... Again, this is not the way the hub functioned when I first got it... It worked perfectly...

Developers, can you weigh in please? @chuck.schwer, @csteele, @mike.maxwell @bravenel I still have one device I can't get this to work on... I spent ALL day yesterday screwing with this... Took forever to add in the last 12 devices... Now I'm stuck with one left.

This is not what the hub did when I first got it... I do not think this is supposed to work this way... In fact, there is nothing in any documentation that I could find even discussing restarting the timer...

Any help would be greatly appreciated... :slight_smile:

5

@patrick Do you have any insight into this?

6

We are looking into it. No real answers as of now, but under normal circumstances, Z-Wave devices do pair up for users, typically within a few seconds of starting the pairing. However if the join process is interrupted for many different reasons, things go sideways.

7

It definitely DOES work for some... I successfully paired 5 zwave plus devices just yesterday (C5 hub 2.1.0.123).

Will be good when they figure out what is happening to the ones that can't versus the ones that can, though.

1 Like
8

@patrick I was thinking something similar... I was wondering if it might be a process I have running... I disabled almost all of my apps in various attempts to isolate it... Hasn't changed... The only thing I didn't disable was HousePanel. I didn't want to have to go through all the setup again... But I don't see a lot of processes for that app in the logs... There were other things that had processes going which I disabled...

Anything you guys want from me or want me to try? I see others with the same issue so there must be a link.

9

Disabling apps (X in top right in table / list view) shouldn't require re-setting up of things...

The next version will have a few improvements to make sure initializing Z-Wave devices complete.

For now, try to get it to pair as close to when you start the timer. Waiting till the last second could cause the Z-wave process to shut down before initialize completes.

Also, take a look at live logging during the pairing start / stop, if it doesn't say its starting z-wave inclusion, then it isn't actually in.

Depending on the z-wave device, I try to exclude it on that same screen first, if it can't exclude, it's probably not going to be able to include...

10

@patrick Ok,

  1. Turned off all apps via the "x"
  2. Put the hub 2 inches from the device
  3. Excluded the device. That has always worked fine and I often do it two or three times...
  4. Hit pair and the device button at exactly the same time.
  5. Immediately the hub recognized and started initializing...
  6. Watched in the logs...

Here is the log
sys:12019-06-02 20:32:05.113 infoZ-Wave Discovery Stopped
sys:12019-06-02 20:31:08.130 infoInitializing Z-Wave Device : 87
sys:12019-06-02 20:31:05.094 infoZ-Wave Discovery Running

It never tells me why it doesn't complete... I am at a complete and total loss...

Any chance I can beta test the new firmware?

11

I am bumping this topic because I have been having this same issue frequently lately. It happens more often with devices being moved over from Wink than with brand new devices.

12

I got with support and they worked closely with me in testing some beta firmware... Anyway, I was finally able to add the devices I wanted and haven't had to change any of my z-wave devices since... I believe they incorporated the changes in the official firmware which was several versions back... I would suggest contacting them and working with them directly. :slight_smile:

13

How do you "restart" the timer? You mean exit go back to devices and start inclusion again?

14

it works differently now... That was many firmware versions ago... i just added devices the other night and it worked fine...