3 Zen75s, a curious tale

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1

So. In my ongoing, neverending quest to move away from 500 and 700 series Z-Wave devices to shiny new 800 Series devices, I replaced a couple of older Enbrighten switches and a Qubino withe Zen75 Heavy Duty switches.

One runs a Radon fan, and 2 run Panasonic 110CFM bathroom extractor fans.

All are single switch connected, and are being used in a very basic on/off fashion.

All three are direct to the hub, and are a similar distance from the hub. The Radon Fan unit is in the worst location radio wise, while the Mbath unit is in the best, which is consistent with the RSSI measurements.

Switch 1 (Mbath)
PER: 0, RTT Avg: 31.4ms, LWR RSSI: -82db
Neighbors: 55, Route Changes: N/A

Switch 2: (Bmt Bath)
PER: 0, RTT Avg: 29.4ms, LWR RSSI: -79db
Neighbors: 51, Route Changes: N/A

Switch 3: (Radon Fan)
PER: 0, RTT Avg: 23.2ms, LWR RSSI: -76db
Neighbors: 34, Route Changes: N/A

But note: no route changes on any of them,

However something strange this way comes:

dev:142026-02-25 07:30:58.956 PMinfoMBath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:142026-02-25 07:30:58.615 PMinfoMBath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:142026-02-25 07:30:58.114 PMinfoMBath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:142026-02-25 07:30:40.595 PMinfoMBath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:142026-02-25 07:30:40.295 PMinfoMBath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:142026-02-25 07:30:39.803 PMinfoMBath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:142026-02-25 06:51:06.045 PMinfoMBath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:142026-02-25 06:51:05.754 PMinfoMBath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:142026-02-25 06:51:05.254 PMinfoMBath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off

The MBath switch repeats everything 3 times. But wait:

dev:3472026-02-25 07:34:03.000 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3472026-02-25 07:34:02.996 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3472026-02-25 07:34:02.905 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3472026-02-25 07:34:02.711 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3472026-02-25 07:34:02.406 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3472026-02-25 07:34:02.191 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3472026-02-25 07:34:00.692 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3472026-02-25 07:34:00.383 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3472026-02-25 07:33:59.879 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3472026-02-25 07:33:47.326 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3472026-02-25 07:33:47.028 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3472026-02-25 07:33:47.006 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3472026-02-25 07:33:46.672 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3472026-02-25 07:33:46.528 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3472026-02-25 07:33:46.164 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3472026-02-25 07:33:45.243 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3472026-02-25 07:33:44.892 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3472026-02-25 07:33:44.389 PMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on

The Basement Bath switch does "on" 3 times and "off" 6!

But wait! The Radon Fan also does 3 each:

dev:3492026-02-25 07:36:21.992 PMinfoBMT Radon Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3492026-02-25 07:36:21.664 PMinfoBMT Radon Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3492026-02-25 07:36:21.156 PMinfoBMT Radon Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3492026-02-25 07:36:20.773 PMinfoBMT Radon Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3492026-02-25 07:36:20.471 PMinfoBMT Radon Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3492026-02-25 07:36:19.967 PMinfoBMT Radon Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3492026-02-25 07:36:19.621 PMinfoBMT Radon Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3492026-02-25 07:36:19.306 PMinfoBMT Radon Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3492026-02-25 07:36:18.805 PMinfoBMT Radon Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3492026-02-25 07:36:18.368 PMinfoBMT Radon Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3492026-02-25 07:36:18.051 PMinfoBMT Radon Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3492026-02-25 07:36:17.551 PMinfoBMT Radon Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3492026-02-25 07:36:16.668 PMinfoBMT Radon Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3492026-02-25 07:36:16.422 PMinfoBMT Radon Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3492026-02-25 07:36:15.918 PMinfoBMT Radon Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on

I tested several other switches, and a Zen76 repeated messages twice, while another Zen76 didnt repeat, and several Zen26s didn't repeat either.

All but the Zen75s use @jtp10181's drivers, but quick testing didn't reveal any difference in log repetition if I switched to native drivers.

Is this a known thing with Zen75's (@agnes.zooz)?

Side note: I do Not love the prewired pigtails on the Zen75s. And no energy measuring? Grrrr.

To be fair, the Zen75s work fine, And, I can certainly turn off text logging, but...what the heck?

Thoughts?

Scott

2

Are you using Zwave JS and/or command retries?
Are they paired with S2 security?

I would guess the commands are being "retied" for some reason, even though the device is clearly responding. Could be happening on other devices as well, for my drivers you would need to turn on debug logging to see it, I suppress duplicate logging to debug level since it is a nuisance and usually harmless.

3

Good questions. Im using Zwave JS. Command retries are not enabled for those devices. I dont think they are paired with S2, let me check.

Nope. No S2.

It is just a nuisance, i just thought it odd!

S

4

Actually, the opposite. -82db is the weakest signal. db is a relative measurement to 0db. -82db is the furthest from 0db of the three reported.

1 Like
5

It is also not normal to have more than one duplicated message, which should only occur if the devices is, for example, sending the same status message in two different formats for compatibility.

I don't know the inner workings of Zwave JS. Technically supervision is supposed to be for S2 security but I have found it actually does work on unsecured devices as well as long s they support supervision. So it is possible JS is using supervised packets, not getting a response fast enough, and sending out retires. That is my suspicion at least. The other possibility is that the acks are not coming back fast enough, so same result, the command is sent again.

6

Yes. Of course, i'm not sure why I got that backwards. I work with RF daily. Old age I guess.

A better evaluation might have been, that they are in the "median" range of RSSI's. The worst RSSI is -92, while the best is -72. The bulk are in the high 70's to mid 80s, so all three of these are reasonable.

Honestly, given the amount of Ducting and other metal between the hub and the Radon fan switch, I'm amazed that I'm getting -76 there and 6db worse in the Mbath, given the two are basically equidistant from the hub.

In terms of the Antenna, all three should be solidly in the main beam of the antenna, so the losses would seem to be mostly due to materials in the walls and floors....

Thanks for catching that though. Frankly, that makes the behavior even stranger to me! Lol

S.

7

That seems a reasonable conclusion.

Although, one would expect the RTTs to be high if that was the case, and if I look at my mesh, 30 seems right in the middle of the range. And web searches indicate 30ms to be "typical".

I loaded @tony.fleisher's Zwave Mesh Details app for additional giggles, and the RTTs are 5 to 8 ms on all three switches, with a 0 stddev.

I've certainly spent more time and attention on this than its worth, It just seemed odd to me.

Its a mystery!

S.

8

Interesting. Jeff, I think you are spot on. 1 command and 3 responses (I think).

Logs

dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:12.914 AMdebugparse:{"cc":112,"cmd":6,"ep":0,"values":[{"request":{"args":[11],"command":"endpoint.invoke_cc_api","commandClass":112,"endpoint":0,"messageId":"expected1939","methodName":"get","nodeId":119},"response":1}]}
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:12.496 AMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:12.492 AMdebugparse:{"cc":37,"cmd":3,"ep":0,"values":[{"ccVersion":2,"commandClass":37,"commandClassName":"Binary Switch","endpoint":0,"metadata":{"label":"Current value","readable":true,"secret":false,"stateful":true,"type":"boolean","writeable":false},"newValue":false,"prevValue":false,"property":"currentValue","propertyName":"currentValue","value":false}]}
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:12.260 AMdebugparse:{"cc":112,"cmd":6,"ep":0,"values":[{"request":{"args":[18],"command":"endpoint.invoke_cc_api","commandClass":112,"endpoint":0,"messageId":"expected1938","methodName":"get","nodeId":119},"response":0}]}
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:12.157 AMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:12.154 AMdebugparse:{"cc":37,"cmd":3,"ep":0,"values":[{"ccVersion":2,"commandClass":37,"commandClassName":"Binary Switch","endpoint":0,"metadata":{"label":"Current value","readable":true,"secret":false,"stateful":true,"type":"boolean","writeable":false},"newValue":false,"prevValue":false,"property":"currentValue","propertyName":"currentValue","value":false}]}
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:11.654 AMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned off
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:11.652 AMdebugparse:{"cc":37,"cmd":3,"ep":0,"values":[{"newValue":false,"property":"currentValue","propertyName":"currentValue"}]}
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:10.673 AMdebugoff()
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:10.044 AMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:10.041 AMdebugparse:{"cc":37,"cmd":3,"ep":0,"values":[{"ccVersion":2,"commandClass":37,"commandClassName":"Binary Switch","endpoint":0,"metadata":{"label":"Current value","readable":true,"secret":false,"stateful":true,"type":"boolean","writeable":false},"newValue":true,"prevValue":true,"property":"currentValue","propertyName":"currentValue","value":true}]}
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:09.942 AMdebugparse:{"cc":112,"cmd":6,"ep":0,"values":[{"request":{"args":[9],"command":"endpoint.invoke_cc_api","commandClass":112,"endpoint":0,"messageId":"expected1934","methodName":"get","nodeId":119},"response":0}]}
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:09.715 AMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:09.712 AMdebugparse:{"cc":37,"cmd":3,"ep":0,"values":[{"ccVersion":2,"commandClass":37,"commandClassName":"Binary Switch","endpoint":0,"metadata":{"label":"Current value","readable":true,"secret":false,"stateful":true,"type":"boolean","writeable":false},"newValue":true,"prevValue":true,"property":"currentValue","propertyName":"currentValue","value":true}]}
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:09.289 AMdebugparse:{"cc":112,"cmd":6,"ep":0,"values":[{"request":{"args":[8],"command":"endpoint.invoke_cc_api","commandClass":112,"endpoint":0,"messageId":"expected1932","methodName":"get","nodeId":119},"response":2}]}
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:09.211 AMinfoBMT Bath Fan Switch (Zen75) was turned on
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:09.207 AMdebugparse:{"cc":37,"cmd":3,"ep":0,"values":[{"newValue":true,"property":"currentValue","propertyName":"currentValue"}]}
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:09.150 AMdebugon()
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:08.633 AMdebugparse:{"cc":112,"cmd":6,"ep":0,"values":[{"request":{"args":[19],"command":"endpoint.invoke_cc_api","commandClass":112,"endpoint":0,"messageId":"expected1930","methodName":"get","nodeId":119},"response":0}]}
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:07.978 AMdebugparse:{"cc":112,"cmd":6,"ep":0,"values":[{"request":{"args":[15],"command":"endpoint.invoke_cc_api","commandClass":112,"endpoint":0,"messageId":"expected1929","methodName":"get","nodeId":119},"response":1}]}
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:07.323 AMdebugparse:{"cc":112,"cmd":6,"ep":0,"values":[{"request":{"args":[14],"command":"endpoint.invoke_cc_api","commandClass":112,"endpoint":0,"messageId":"expected1928","methodName":"get","nodeId":119},"response":1}]}
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:06.668 AMdebugparse:{"cc":112,"cmd":6,"ep":0,"values":[{"request":{"args":[2],"command":"endpoint.invoke_cc_api","commandClass":112,"endpoint":0,"messageId":"expected1927","methodName":"get","nodeId":119},"response":0}]}
dev:3472026-02-26 01:50:06.007 AMdebugparse:{"cc":112,"cmd":6,"ep":0,"values":[{"request":{"args":[1],"command":"endpoint.invoke_cc_api","commandClass":112,"endpoint":0,"messageId":"expected1924","methodName":"get","nodeId":119},"response":0

1 Like
9

If you capture Zwave logs of it happening that would paint an even better picture. Possibly could see why multiple replies are being sent.

One other thing it could be, possibly on the device end and not the hub. When the device sends the reply if it does not get an ack back (or thinks it didnt) from the hub on time it may send out another response, etc.. Since retires on the hub and S2 should not be in play, that is possibly what it is.

2 Likes
10

Good thought. I got home crazy late today, but I should have time to capture some Z-Wave logs this weekend.

Thanks for exploring this with me. Probably just a rabbit hole, but still! :slight_smile:
S