[] - Scenes and Room Lighting

It only just dawned on me that Scenes is being retired. I probably read it before but it didn't register...

I also read through most of the excellent write up @bravnel wrote back in May about the differences and similarities between RL and Groups and Scenes.

My question is probably more for the benefit of others....

I use scenes quite heavily, although have now moved my Hue lights back to the Hue bridge, so the HE scenes include a single Coco-Hue device representing the scene defined on the bridge. The HE scenes are there more to facilitate being able to select them in Scenes Per Mode options on HE, such as in RL, ML or RM apps. That said, at one time the HE scenes did define settings for individual bulbs paired to the HE hub.

If the intent is to move the definition of these scenes into RL, or the definition of a collection of scenes covering a single room as it would most likely be in many cases, that seems fine from the point of view of overall room lighting automation. However I also like the option to specifically target a particular scene in say an RM rule, or include the individual scenes as tiles on a dashboard. Would this require setting up separate Room Lighting apps for each individual scene then? Then having an additional RL app to control the overall lighting in the room, such as motion-based triggers and alike?

I'm not saying this is a problem, it's no different to have X scene apps then a RL or ML app, it's the same outcome in terms of numbers of apps. Just wanting to make sure I understand what the intended setup would be.

1 Like

It's the same for RL but for one thing: RM does not 'see' RL 'scenes', the way it can see an old 'Scene-1.2'. The the same effect can be done by turning on the Activation Device of the RL 'scene' (as could also be done with Scene-1.2). Under the covers in RM, all activating a Scene-1.2 amounts to is turning on its activator device.


So I would setup an RL instance for each scene, then another RL instance to handle the automation, turning on the scene RL activator devices when I want?

I don't understand what you're doing, or why you would need 'another RL instance'. There is a one-to-one mapping of a Scene-1.2 to an RL instance (especially if the Scene-1.2 is imported into RL). However you activated them before is still doable with the one change noted in previous post.

For example, if in RM you were using Scene Per Mode, then now you'd use Switch Per Mode. etc.

Yes. I guess my question wasn't so much "can it be done" or "will it work", just wanting to know that I would setup an equivalent RL instance for each scene, then another RL instance to control the Room.

I'm probably just repeating the same statement there... so to explain it with an example, if I had 4 existing HE scenes:

Study - Day
Study - Eventing
Study - Night
Study - Relax

Plus I previously had a motion lighting app setup to manage motion-based activation of these scenes.

What I'm expecting I would now do, if I had a clean-slate and was setting them up from scratch, would be to create / install an RL app for each of the 4 scenes, then an additional RL instance that configures all the motion-based activation, etc, referencing the activation devices for each scene.

This way I could reference the activation device for each scene on my dashboards if I want.

1 Like

Yes, this is the equivalent approach, in each case a one to one mapping of old to new.

1 Like

Thanks Bruce, just wanted to make sure I understood the intended setup.

1 Like

Backing up a little, if CoCoHue scenes are the only reason you're using Hubitat scenes, you probably don't need to do this at all. It depends on the app, but many let you do "Switch per mode," not just "Scene per mode," and a CoCoHue scene is (in part) just a switch device that you can turn on to activate. So, you can leave the Hubitat scene (or Room Lighting activator, etc.) out of the picture entirely.

Unless, of course, there is more to the scene than just these lights (or the app you're using only supports Hubitat scene activators specifically). :slight_smile:

1 Like

Yeah, that was where my original comment about asking this question for the benefit of others, more than myself. You are right that the scene activators from Coco-Hue would be enough on their own in my case, perhaps with only one or two exceptions. And my sticking with overlaying HE scenes is at best an old approach from a time when (and this may actually be incorrect) that scenes were the main option for per mode activation in apps like RM.

Migration would be much easier if Swap Devices in Settings recognized group switch and activator switch types. I have a number of groups and moving the bindings one at a time per device is going to be a chore.

No doubt, but not possible for Swap Devices.

Have to say, I'm not a fan of Room Lighting, Groups and Scenes is way more intuitive and straight forward. Maybe it will grow on me but I have a bunch of groups and scenes, right now I'm finding the migration frustrating to understand.

Perhaps if you showed one of these before/after I could point out some things.

You don't need to migrate these at all if you don't want, they won't go away or stop working.

I guess the update note lead me to believe (Groups and Scenes) was going away. I'm not doing anything crazy with Groups, I like to group light together so I can control them together as if they are one device. The Room Lighting app has way too many options for that and I don't see a way to distinguish between groups or scenes or other automations, they seem to be just jumbled in together under one app.

They are not:

When you import either a Group-2.1 or a Scene-1.2, what you end up with is functionally equivalent to the app you imported.

A Group uses the Activation Device to turn on all of the devices just like the Activation Device itself.

A Scene uses the Activation Device as a switch to Activate the captured device settings for the devices used in the Scene. Those can be re-captured, and set up per mode if desired, but as imported have just a single set of values. Those values can be adjusted manually using the table (Scene-1.2 has a manual adjust also).

There are a couple of options available that control how the Activator device can be used as an Indicator for either a group or scene, and specifically how to deal with group issues such as Zigbee Group Messaging and the ON command given to the Activator device.

Simply importing one and seeing how it is set up should give you a pretty clear indication of what is what.

As noted, it's not going away, it won't be removed from your current hub. However, just to be clear, if you purchased a new hub, Groups and Scenes would not be available to install on that or any other new hub.

I do think that it's worth your while to spend a little time playing with RL...I had some of the same feelings you are having when I first started looking at RL, but after playing w/it for a while and asking questions I am getting comfortable with it. I still have stuff in Groups and Scenes but when I add new stuff I'm doing it in RL so that I can see/feel the differences and see if I find instances when I would prefer to use RL.

I do generally like to "update" to the newer apps over time, as that's where HE staff focus/energy will be. But definitely no reason to rush the migration.


This topic was automatically closed 365 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.