You seem unwilling to provide details requested by staff to track down the source of your problems.
Why is that?
4 Likes
He’s got a couple of threads going, all around the same theme, and the same antagonist delivery.
5 Likes
Evidence please? No you're just wandering into hyperbole territory. Do you know how many lines of code go into a build? The fact that they've been documenting everything in the release that they've reported both publicly and in the beta show how open they really are. At this point if you're unwilling to do what needs to be done to help them/us help you, then maybe we should just close this thread. It's already started to devolve due to your misplaced anger...
5 Likes
Hey - can you make your point more clearly (and without the finger pointing)? You said there were several issues with 2.2.9.140. One of them turned out to be your fault (unplugging the ethernet cord from your Caseta bridge). How do we know the others also aren't your fault?
2 Likes
My 2 cents. I am running 3 hubs with Lutron interface and have been for sometime. I am not a programmer or techie just an end user. The last update I installed resulted in all 3 hubs becoming unbootable. It took time and effort to get them back online. And then all the Motion routines did not run properly - ended up converting them to Simple Automation Rules. If an update breaks something that was previously working - it's simply unacceptable. I came from Hubitat after 10 years with Smarthings for a better experience. This is not the first update problem I have experienced with Hubitat. It would appear there are two user groups here, techies who want the newest and greatest and end users who want to set up routines and have them work consistently. I really don't care about new features or added devices. One would think that Hubitat already supports enough devices. I care about reliability. Maybe Hubitat should provide two tracks, one for the techie guys so they could experiment and one for end users who seek reliability. If Hubitat wants to expand their user base, they need to do better. I would have a hard time recommending them to the people I talk to. And there are more end users than there are techies.
Could you please share just what build this was that caused you these problems?
I went from 2.2.9.137 to 2.2.9.138.
Updated to 2.2.9.138. 10/22/2021
Updated to 2.2.9.137. 10/21/2021
Updated to 2.2.8.156. 08/22/2021
Updated to 2.2.8.155. 08/12/2021
I normally don’t look at the Dashboards if everything is running correctly. When I see an update, I normally do it.
Am now running 2.2.9.140. I will probably stop doing updates. I don’t have the time or inclination to fix the problems that are being generated.
After getting the hubs back online after 2.2.9.138, the existing rules under the Motion and Mode Lighting App stopped functioning correctly. It took me a great deal of time to figure out what was causing the problems. I re-wrote the rules in Simple Automation Rules and things got back to normal.
I currently have one hub that is still using the Hubitat Simple Lighting app. I don’t know if this is a problem or not, but it has been functioning normally.
As an aside I would not have a problem paying an annual service fee (package plan for more than one hub). Under the old Schlage Nexia system, I paid $10 month and thought it was reasonable. An annual Hubitat fee of $100 (or $150 for multiple hubs) would not be excessive in my mind, assuming Hubitat achieves some stability.
Since I moved from all z-wave to virtually all zigbee, my greatest fear is having no way to move everything to a new hub if there is a device failure.
Current is 2.2.9.146. Several bug fixes since 140. Have you read any of the release notes at all? They list everything changed during hot fixes
2 Likes
You are missing the point. There have been 5 updates / BUG fixes in the last 2 1/2 months. There have been many updates over the years that have created headaches for users. It takes time and effort to discover what is causing the problem and take steps to rectify it.
The fact that so many BUG fixes are being issued speaks to a bigger problem. This is not about BUG fixes, It is about reliability.
For those of us who are not programmers/techies/hobbyists, this is becoming a bigger and bigger issue. Hubitat touts " Experience Home Automation that is Local, Reliable, Fast, and Private". I agree with most of that but many people would take exception with Reliable.
It's time for Hubitat to step back and decide what it wants to be. A reliable automation platform for the masses or a platform for hobbyists that have the time and inclination to deal with the problems that are being generated.
So two tolerance levels, one that wants to be near the leading edge of development and willing to work with some minor imperfections, and one that desires a perfected product. You appear to be in the second category, so consider waiting 2 weeks or so after the last patch to make sure the patch cycle has completed before upgrading - believe you'll be happier.
6 Likes
I disagree. Another interpretation is that the hotfixes they issue, which may only apply to a small number of users, is an indication that they’re paying attention to feedback from users that want or need to be on the bleeding edge of the most recent update.
As @thebearmay said, just wait a week, a month, or simply decline to update sometimes (unless you’re dying to try a newer feature, or there’s a bug that actually affects you that’s being fixed). It’s awesome that Hubitat even gives us that flexibility re: timing of firmware updates, IMHO.
I used to use smartthings, which offered zero flexibility in re: hub updates. They came when they came, like it or not.
3 Likes
I can't speak for Hubitat but my interpretation is that they have decided what they want to be: Local, Reliable, Fast, and Private No stepping back needed.
It's been noted that some of the bugs being fixed pre-date the current 2.2.9 release. Also discussed elsewhere is the release testing flow. Small team of employees that become Alpha Testers and it would be estimated that 40% of bugs are identified (and corrected) in this phase. Beta Testers find (and Staff correct) 50% of the remaining bugs.
Also discussed elsewhere is the state of the market for IoT, and the consensus is that "masses" are not the target for any IoT vendor yet. YET. Might be years, even 10 years for this to become ready for the masses. Which means that's unavailable as a realistic choice to Hubitat.
I'm at the other extreme, I guess.. 5 hubs total, 4 of them connected into one System:
All of mine are on the latest and have been updated through all of the intermediates.
2 Likes
The is exactly what I do. I wait several weeks after the last update, or if I see a staff member say this version is closed for updates, before I pull the trigger and update. This has served me well with no issues at all caused by updating.
6 Likes
I normally don't post on boards, and this will be my last. Just a couple of points. By everyone agreeing that a user should wait till an update "proves" itself - you just made my point.
I have 3 C-5 hubs - all bought at different times. I have no sophisticated routines, I do not use Rule Machine only Simple Automation, the Motion Rule and on one hub Simple Lighting which never made the conversion (yes I contacted Hubitat Support - no response). All I do is control lights in conjunction with Lutron or a switch based on time, motion or sun position. So basically I check the boxes and fill in some blanks. All 3 hubs failed to boot after the update to 2.2.9.138. So, I do not believe this was a singular problem. When basic rules are broken by an update - It becomes very frustrating.
As for the IOT, as far as I know, Hubitat only receives revenue on the sales margin of their hubs, and whatever revenue is generated by their new support package. I have got to believe the company has to attract new hub buyers to keep going - and that means an appeal to a wider audience (mass market) or instituting some form of service fee.
Maybe we can help with this. @bobbyD can look into it, I'm sure, since that's not the customer support experience they want to provide.
I honestly spend zero time worrying about this, and I'm pretty heavily invested into the use of Hubitat to automate my home. I bought a C3, then a C5, and now a C7 when I had a reason to. And I subscribe to the hub protection service because I think it's a good value for me. I don't need the remote admin service because I have a VPN server running at home.
They know how to run their business and not run out of money. I don't. I only know what I want as a customer.
3 Likes
A problem was identified with the C5 hub and a hotfix in 2.2.9.139 fixed this issue.
2 Likes
Sorry to hear about your terrible experience. We have had some issues with 2 2 9 upgrade on a few C5 hubs, but 3 out of 3 that is highly unusual.
Regarding your ticket. Do you mind sharing the ticket number that was assigned? I checked for any tickets under your community email account and couldn't find any.
If you'd like us to further investigate what might have happened, please don't hesitate to send me a private message with your hub's registration email, along with your hubs' MAC addresses.
7 Likes
It also adds an If that breaks the rule of you save it but it has always done that. I have AM and PM mixed up but as you can see the rules was paused but I recently unpaused it and the condition can not be edit so app is broken.
They were sort of like Microsoft has become but they hide lots of undocumented fixes, that is why now they just release cumulative fixes. Too many bug to document. Windows is really buggy but at least it does not crash much anymore.
